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Discussion: Strauss: "The Complete Analogue Recordings" - Karajan

Posts: 23
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Post by Chris May 29, 2014 (11 of 23)
ramesh said:

I understand DGG are continuing this CD + bluray audio format with :
1. Carlos Kleiber 3CD & BRA of Beethoven 5 & 7, Schubert 3 & 8, Brahms 4
2. 5CD + BRA of Beethoven symphonies, Karajan 1960s cycle- unlike the SACD box set no rehearsal sequence of the Beethoven 9

How incredibly creative of them to exclude one the of the most interesting things from the Beethoven SACD set,the rehearsal from the 9th.

Post by Vaan June 5, 2014 (12 of 23)

Post by Chris June 5, 2014 (13 of 23)
Vaan said:

The rehearsals are included in the set. http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4793442?SET_LANGUAGE=jp

Good for those who might buy these blu rays. In this case as so often with all these recycled albums from the majors,I have not only got the original LPs but also the SACD version.
But I do find the rehearsals interesting like the ones on a separate LP of Karajan's,a bit heavy but very beautifully played,full scale Mozart symphonies from EMI where I only have the LPs.
But I saw at least some of the Mozart albums on SACD in Singapore and they are also available from several sites as 24/96 downloads. Mabe newly added Qobuz has them I haven't checked? But in this case as far as I know, they probably are without rehearsals.
One of the great joys as a photographer has been to be able to sit in at and listen during rehearsals and hear how a performance gradually develops from a conductor who really knows what he or she is doing. And Karajan was definitely one of those conductors imo.But even long before I could do so as part of my job,my first rehearsals were as a teenager with the conductors of our local orchestras like the NSO and others. And later I was even lucky enough in Vienna and Salzburg to attend rehearsals for the Wiener Festwochen and the Festival in Salzburg.
I still go to rehearsals whenever I can.
With a good conductor and orchestra rehearsals and recording sessions is the best way I know to really get to know a work intimately.
I have been lucky to see some of the famous names both today and earlier at work with their orchestras.
Karajan only once at a "Generalprobe" in Vienna in 1970 but I will never forget it.
Addendum: I listened to the rehearsal last night again and absolutely loved it. I just wish they had recorded the symphony as realistically as the rehearsal ie turned off their multimics.
If I were to rate the SACD set's SQ now I would say no more than three stars for sound.
But the rehearsal session is still very clear and open and realistic after all these years.

Post by ramesh June 6, 2014 (14 of 23)
Vaan said:

The rehearsals are included in the set. http://www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/cat/4793442?SET_LANGUAGE=jp

Thanks- I didn't see this mentioned online in the UK press.

I've just received the Karajan set- LP-sized slipcase, LP-sized booklet, 12 discs in three foldouts like the sort used for a 2 LP set.

-Amusingly it claims '5000 set limited edition' when 5000 would be a good sale for any new multi-disc CD set.

-Commentaries largely by Karajan biographer Richard Osborne, and these appear to be largely new ones for this set. They are sparse on detail, e.g. no mention of why Karajan used Decca for some recordings, no reference to the saga of the Decca 'Zarathustra' and its usage/nonusage in the 2001 soundtrack, no mention by Osborne of his remarks in his biography of Karajan that concerts Karajan gave of the Alpine Symphony after the recording seemed even better. Osborne's old reviews in 'Gramophone' magazine of these performances are far more detailed than what's printed in the booklet in this set.

-Blu Ray audio contains all the analogue orchestral recordings, even those from the 1940s! However it does not include the Alpine Symphony, which was digitally recorded, nor the Rosenkavalier. Tracks are stereo and mono [ the 1940s recordings ]. Nothing multichannel even for the studio recordings mde in the rely 1970s.

-Remastering notes only state 'Discs 1-6 remastered by Lennart Jeschke Pure Audio authoring : msm-studios'

Post by nickc June 6, 2014 (15 of 23)
The analogue Death and Transfiguration has always been unsurpassable to me, the strings at the climax overwhelming, I would love one of your erudite reviews when you've had a chance to listen further!
Nick

Post by ramesh June 6, 2014 (16 of 23)
Don't know TuV well Nick, though Herbie's digital version was one of the earliest CDs I bought. Then I got the Sony DVD of him conducting the same, along with Metamorphosen, a concert filmed around the time of that studio recording.
It so happens that I've preordered from Japan the same Herbie SHM SACD releases of TuV along with the Letzte Lieder, along with another of Zarathustra. It would've made financial sense to cancel these duplications, but these would be worthy candidates to conduct a quality comparison between exorbitant overpriced Jap SACD versus BRA.

Post by nickc June 6, 2014 (17 of 23)
I see on One Bit Audio it will be released on SACD in Japan, with the Janowitz Four Last Songs.
Like a voice crying in the wilderness ( or is it in space no-one can hear you scream?) I ask why don't they include Metamorphosen, as they have before with this coupling?
It's even the same cover!!!

Post by SteelyTom September 23, 2014 (18 of 23)
How does the Don Quixote with Fournier fare sonically? I'm thinking of getting this set partly for it, or opting for the single-disc, new SHM-SACD, with its new DSD transfer.

Post by Astral September 23, 2014 (19 of 23)
SteelyTom said:

How does the Don Quixote with Fournier fare sonically? I'm thinking of getting this set partly for it, or opting for the single-disc, new SHM-SACD, with its new DSD transfer.

Those Japanese SACDs are very unlikely to be new DSD transfers, I would expect they use the 24/96 remasters as their source.

That in mind, the 24/96 sound much better than any previous digital, even though by no means are these natural sounding recordings to start with.

Post by Joseph Ponessa September 23, 2014 (20 of 23)
SteelyTom said:

How does the Don Quixote with Fournier fare sonically? I'm thinking of getting this set partly for it, or opting for the single-disc, new SHM-SACD, with its new DSD transfer.

I just finished hearing the entire Karajan/Strauss BD-A today, and it took the better part of the day. I didn't care for the audio quality of the opening Heldenleben, and felt owly about the whole enterprise, but then came the Don Quixote and I became a believer for the natural quality of the cello and other strings. Awesome, really. The original tapes must be in very good condition. I may get the SHM-SACD too, because... of the quixotic quest for the ultimate transfer.

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