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DSD said:
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, some SACD players convert DSD>PCM>analog using the analog outs, and other players keep the signal DSD until converted to analog using the analog outs.
I see - thanks for the clarification.
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ClassicalDJ said:
Doesn't DSD have to be converted to analog at some point in playback system anyway? If so, then a player's DAC converting DSD straight to analog, which is transferred to an amp and then to the speakers without being converted back into a digital signal, would be as ideal as sending DSD over HDMI to an amp and then converting straight to analog with the amp's DAC, correct?
Arguably it is better as there is less of an analogue path for signal degradation. That does of course require for the DACs to be equal in quality for the amp/rec as the player, which is a whole other can of worms...
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Post by tadekj August 7, 2012 (13 of 48)
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I don’t know how it is done inside my Sony XA-777ES player but all DSD recorded SACD’s sound better to my ears from all other including DXD.
As most of you know, this 10 years old SACD player has analog outputs. Most of the time, I am listening in 5 channels that I prefer from 2 channel stereo.
My front channels I play thru tubes amp and tubes preamp and 3 other channels I play thru 3-channel hybrid Jolida 1704 RC integrated amp (that I am not proud with but this amp is very practical and is doing the job with most M-ch SACD’s).
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That Jolida is an interesting beast. Does anyone know of any other 3 channel integrated amps as I was considering a venture into multi channel from SACD but I am extremely happy with my main amp and would want to use as the front engine?
Are there any issues with phase or anything else when using two different amps?
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Post by Oakland August 7, 2012 (15 of 48)
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DSD said:
......some SACD players convert DSD>PCM>analog using the analog outs, and other players keep the signal DSD until converted to analog using the analog outs.
About 5 or 6 years ago someone on the Audio Asylum Hi-Rez made a list request for best sounding SACDs. I compiled a list of 30. At the time I was not really tuned in to source genre “pedigree” or biases (and I'm still not tuned in). I just simply made a list of what I thought were my best sounding SACDs. But a couple years later I ran across that list and I did a check for source genre (because of all the debate) and found that about 27 out of 30 were either originally recorded DSD or were or were originally analog recordings (such as the Mighty Sam McCain Audio Request SACD). Three of the 30 SACDs were PCM sourced.
So, the chips sort of fell where they fell and I did not try to figure out “why”. Perhaps it has to do with my SACD players. Unlike many audiophiles I don’t change players often. Since 1999 I have owned two players, the Sony SCD-1 and the EMM Labs. Both players (as far as I know) maintain DSD until conversion to analog as oppose to converting DSD to PCM then to analog. May be that has something to do with it. I don’t have a clue.
I recently submitted a review on the Kitajenko Tschaikowsky “Manfred Symphony” on the Oehms label and found it to be one of the very best recordings I own. I’m almost certain that I never gave a thought one way or the other as to whether it was a PCM or DSD recording. When I listen that simply does not enter the equation. Either a recording sounds good or it doesn’t. I just checked for the genre type on the Kitajenko Tschaikowsky and there is no indication. I’m sort of rooting that it is a PCM recording.
Robert C. Lang
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Post by tailspn August 7, 2012 (16 of 48)
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old-dog-newtricks said:
Are there any issues with phase or anything else when using two different amps?
Absolute phase of each channel can be adjusted by playing the "Phase Check" tracks of Pentatone's Stay In Tune SACD.
Stay in Tune with PentaTone
by reversing any necessary speaker leads. But most amplifiers ate not phase reversing.
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ClassicalDJ said:
From what I can tell from monitoring this site's reviews and discussions, DSD recordings are generally preferable to PCM ones, whether an original recording or one from the analog tapes. However, my amplifier does not allow me to playback a pure DSD signal, and do not see myself upgrading for quite some time. In light of this, is there any reason for me to consider the merit of an SACD recorded in DSD over one recorded in PCM (all else being equal), since it will be converted to PCM anyway?
Interesting question perhaps, but academic -- You will not find any case where you have a choice between an SACD recorded in DSD and one recorded in PCM with all else being equal.
My personal recommendation: Ignore the recording details, trust your ears and enjoy SACDs of performances you like.
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The Seventh Taylor said:
Interesting question perhaps, but academic -- You will not find any case where you have a choice between an SACD recorded in DSD and one recorded in PCM with all else being equal.
My personal recommendation: Ignore the recording details, trust your ears and enjoy SACDs of performances you like.
Yes, that is generally true. But, according to Kal in the latest Stereophile, the Adams Short Ride in a Fast Machine from the same performance appears on both the SACD, with Harmonielehre, and on the recent Blu-ray San Francisco Symphony at 100. Not sure if the same mike feeds were used, and there are mastering differences.
Kal preferred the BR very slightly. I have not done a comparison yet, myself. But, but are excellent based on separate listening sessions. The BR is one of the first to use the new Dolby up sampling from 48 to 96k with apodizing, courtesy of Meridian. Several of us think it might be the best sounding BR yet released with video content.
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Post by onenairb August 10, 2012 (19 of 48)
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These can be intresting debates but ultimately it depends on the source recording and the compentency of the mixing and production.
I have many recording from all different sources DSD, PCM (in all bit flavours) and Analogue and I can choose superb examples of all that have been released in SACD format and some very poor ones.
The transition from DSD source to analogue should always take the path of least resilience if it can be helped e.g. DSD - Analogue DAC is much prefered over DSD - PCM - Analogue. The OPPO BDP xxx player let you configure the path depending on what format you wish the DSD to be carried over the HDMI connection - Pure DSD or PCM. I have it set for DSD as I use the analogue-outs into my surround amp as it does not support HDMI.
As an aside I frankly find it very frustrating that there are no surround amps (or superior DACS) that support DSD over HDMI. Wouldn't it be the Ds Bs if you could stream DSD?
If I build a surround processor pre amp that supports DSD over HDMI would I have to licence this from Sony?
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Fitzcaraldo215 said:
Kal preferred the BR very slightly.
Not really. I thought that the sound of the BR was more appropriate to accompanying the visuals while that of the SACD would be less so. Without the display, it would be a matter of taste and I might have a different preference under different conditions.
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