Thread: DSD and Stereo

Posts: 9

Post by tream September 29, 2005 (1 of 9)
I just received from the Berkshire Record Outlet, having paid the grand sum of $2.99 each, the Telarc recording of Mahler 1 with the Blumine movement conducted by Levi and the Mahler 10 (Mazzetti version) conducted by Lopez Cobos.

As it turns out, both were originally recorded in DSD (noted on the packaging), as I'm sure many Telarc's of this vintage (c. 2000) were.

Even though I believe in multichannel, I would have gladly spent more than the $2.99 (a lot more, actually) for these recordings had Telarc issued them on SACD. I'm hoping that Telarc continues its policy of release of stereo SACD's from its catalog as well as new recordings in multichannel.

Post by csuzor September 29, 2005 (2 of 9)
Yes, it's sad that DSD recordings are not released as SACD... it follows what some believe DSD was developed for, archiving to replace tapes, not necessarily for consumers.

Aren't such recording always multi-track anyway? If yes, stereo is a mix, and mch could have been done almost as easily? Maybe too costly to redo and re-release? Maybe Telarc's mch experts (like Mr Bishop) were busy on other projects?

Post by DSD September 30, 2005 (3 of 9)
csuzor said:

Yes, it's sad that DSD recordings are not released as SACD... it follows what some believe DSD was developed for, archiving to replace tapes, not necessarily for consumers.

Aren't such recording always multi-track anyway? If yes, stereo is a mix, and mch could have been done almost as easily? Maybe too costly to redo and re-release? Maybe Telarc's mch experts (like Mr Bishop) were busy on other projects?

Hi,

Telarc started recording in DSD in 1995, three years before 2 channel SACD was invented and five years before Multi-Channel SACD was invented. All of these early DSD recordings were 2 channel, except for some of the Kunzel's of which most have been multi-channel since 1989 when Telarc started using Dolby Surround in 20/44.1PCM.

The Telarc recording of Mahler 1 with the Blumine movement conducted by Levi and the Mahler 10 (Mazzetti version) conducted by Lopez Cobos likely was recorded with three microphones to 2 channel DSD so there would be no way to remix to Multi-channel. There are lots of 2 channel DSD Telarc recordings and Telarc quit releasing them when Multi-Channel SACD premiered. The only 2 channel recordings they have released lately are the historic 50kHz Soundstream PCM recordings. Maybe they will get around to their older DSD 2 channel recordings one of these days, one can always hope.

Zander has just released a Multi-channel Pure DSD recording of Mahler's 1st but no Blumine movement. And the only Mahler 10th we have on SACD is the Adagio and Purgatorio movements conducted by George Szell on Sony SACD.

Post by Claude September 30, 2005 (4 of 9)
csuzor said:

Yes, it's sad that DSD recordings are not released as SACD... it follows what some believe DSD was developed for, archiving to replace tapes, not necessarily for consumers.

Most recent Sony CD reissues of analog recordings also come from DSD archives.

The Miles Davis "Complete Jack Johnson" box set was even remixed in 5.1 according to the liner notes, however this multichannel remix is not available as no SACD was released.

Post by csuzor September 30, 2005 (5 of 9)
DSD, thanks for the info.

Claude, I am confused...

I guess you are saying, Sony is releasing DSD archived music as plain CD, but it is not an analog recording, right?

And Miles Davis was remixed to 5.1, and this was written on the liner notes of a plain CD, without the possibility to actually buy or listen to it? Is that useful information for anyone reading those notes??



Is it really costly or high risk to release stereo SACD if the archive is already stereo DSD? What is going on here, is there really a huge additional cost to printing and releasing stereo SACD rather than CD?

Post by Claude October 1, 2005 (6 of 9)
Hi csuzor,

What I meant is that Sony is archiving it's analog recordings in DSD and in some cases even did 5.1 remixes, although it is releasing the music on redbook only.

To be accurate, it is not mentioned in the liner notes but in the credits.

Duke Ellington "Piano in the background" (1960 recording reissued in 2004) and others: "Remixed and mastered in DSD by Mark Wilder at Sony Studios"

Miles Davis "Complete Jack Johnson Sessions" (2003): "This box set was mixed from the original 8-track 1" analog master tapes using DSD technology. A DSD stereo mix and a 5.1 multichannel mix were made simultaneously by mixing the 8-track master directly in the Sony Sonoma system"

Post by ramesh October 1, 2005 (7 of 9)
DSD said:

Hi,

Telarc started recording in DSD in 1995, three years before 2 channel SACD was invented and five years before Multi-Channel SACD was invented. All of these early DSD recordings were 2 channel, except for some of the Kunzel's of which most have been multi-channel since 1989 when Telarc started using Dolby Surround in 20/44.1PCM.

Dear DSD,

Could you elaborate on this? I thought Sony invented DSD. Was the Telarc process a Philips bitstream, or the Sony 64 fs 1 bit model with high level noise shaping? The earliest Telarc recording I have which has DSD recording is the Dvorak Stabat Mater. The earlier Zander Mahler recordings, post 1995, I remember seeing with 20 or 24 bit recording stated on the cover, not DSD.

By the way, thanks for the review of SACD of the Spanish Folias. I'll have it on a subsequent lot of discs to order. Please do more reviews. We'd be interested in your opinions of the Telarc Higdon, and Nynan's 'Piano'.

Post by Claude October 1, 2005 (8 of 9)
AFAIK, Ed Meitner "invented" DSD, the data format later chosen by Sony and Philips for the SACD.

http://www.belcantosociety.com/belcanto/pages/dsd.html#anchor594842

Post by DSD October 2, 2005 (9 of 9)
ramesh said:

Dear DSD,

Could you elaborate on this? I thought Sony invented DSD. Was the Telarc process a Philips bitstream, or the Sony 64 fs 1 bit model with high level noise shaping? The earliest Telarc recording I have which has DSD recording is the Dvorak Stabat Mater. The earlier Zander Mahler recordings, post 1995, I remember seeing with 20 or 24 bit recording stated on the cover, not DSD.

By the way, thanks for the review of SACD of the Spanish Folias. I'll have it on a subsequent lot of discs to order. Please do more reviews. We'd be interested in your opinions of the Telarc Higdon, and Nynan's 'Piano'.

It was Sony's DSD equipment Telarc used to make it's DSD recordings. If you remember Sony's first use of DSD was archiving their older analog master tapes which were in bad shape. After hearing the results the Telarc team thought DSD would make excellent new recordings, Sony loaned them the equipment the rest is history. All Telarc CDs made with DSD have the DSD logo on the back. And will say - Digital Recording Processor: Sony Direct Stream Digital ADC.

It first DSD was a way to make better sounding CDs, nobody knew at the time there would ever be a consumer format based on DSD. A format aimed at audiophiles everyone believed would fall flat on it's face.

Next time I listen to Jennifer Higdon's wonderful Telarc SACD I will write up a review. Until then this is for me the greatest new composer discovery ever, her music is beautiful, exciting and very rewarding.

I won't be trying Nyman's Piano Membran SACD even though it is only $5.00 as I had a CD of his on Argo that had 3 or 4 works and I disliked everyone of the them.

Happy listening,
Teresa

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