Post by Daland June 2, 2012 (41 of 82)
|
|
DSD said:
Daland I have lots of opera suites and "NO" operas. I don't demand opera suites be arranged by the composer who wrote the opera, the main requirement is that they have the best music of the opera with NO operatic singing.
CORRECTED 6/1 9PM
If you have lots of opera suites, why don't you give a few examples?
If you expect an opera suite to contain the best music of the opera, how do you find out? After all, you never listen to a complete opera. And I doubt that "Di quella pira" played by an orchestra sounds as thrilling as when sung by Bjoerling or Pavarotti.
By the way, a suite does not necessarily contain the best music of a work. Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker Suite is a case in point.
|
|
|
Post by DSD June 2, 2012 (42 of 82)
|
|
Daland here are some instrumental suites I have from operas:
Bizet's Carmen
Gershwin's Porgy and Bess
Gounod's Faust
Hanson's Merry Mount
Kodaly's Háry János
Massenet's Le Cid
Rimsky-Korsakov's Le Coq d'or
Strauss' Rosenkavalier
Wagner's Ring
Weill's Threepenny Opera
There are other suites in my collection, plus I have overtures, dances and excerpts from operas.
Problem is I don't like how classical singers sound, it's the style of singing that turns me off. However I like non-classical singing such as folk, rock, country, bluegrass and most jazz.
|
|
|
Post by seth June 2, 2012 (43 of 82)
|
|
flyingdutchman said:
Guiraud is perhaps most famous for constructing the recitatives — both beloved and criticized— that replaced the spoken dialogue in performances of Bizet's opera Carmen for more than a century.
I don't think anyone praises the recitatives -- the singers like them because they're a lot easier to get through than the spoken french.
The main criticism against the recitatives is that they cut a lot dialogue, including important character backstory. Had Bizet lived longer he would have more than likely created a recitative version for performances outside the Opéra-Comique, but he wouldn't have been as literal in the cutting.
The bottom line about Carmen, is that people forget or don't realize that the opera was written for the 1,250 seat Opéra-Comique (where there are no issues hearing spoken dialogue in the cheap seats) -- it was not grand opera, but written in the genre of french Opéra comique.
|
|
|
Post by seth June 2, 2012 (44 of 82)
|
|
DSD said:
Some instrumental suites I have from opera's:
Bizet's Carmen
Gershwin's Porgy and Bess
Gounod's Faust
Hanson's Merry Mount
Kodaly's Háry János
Massenet's Le Cid
Rimsky-Korsakov's Le Coq d'or
Strauss' Rosenkavalier
Wagner's Ring
Weill's Threepenny Opera
There are other suites in my collection, plus I have overtures, dances and excerpts from operas.
Problem is I don't like how classical singers sound, it's the style of singing that turns me off. However I like non-classical singing such as folk, rock, country, bluegrass and most jazz.
The singing style in these operas are all completely different. I mean, there's no comparison between The Threepenny Opera, Wagner and Massenet.
Maybe you need to challenge yourself to take another listen before writing off a huge genre of music.
|
|
|
|
|
|
New Titles on the way....
Well I am bemused at how the thread was "hijacked".
I am even more bemused at the idea of someone declaring that they do not like the "operatic style of singing" and who says that Brahm's best works are the Hungarian Dances and won't spend much (any ?) time in further investigating this extremely rich and rewarding music.
I will admit that the business of disliking the "Operatic style of singing" kind of makes me want to roll on the floor laughing!... and yet, maybe I understand that because it is something of a turn off when someone not really up to it undertakes to sing a passage that strains their voice. If one's first encounter with Opera entails such an experience, one may extrapolate the experience and become very narrowly confined within that opinion. I know a few such people. I cannot make any headway against their prejudice.
I am grateful that I am not among them.
My first encounters with Brahms and Mahler too, on inadequate recordings played on inadequate gear led me not so much to reject same but really did damp my enthusiasm for that music till I heard it live or in better reproduction. I have a semi understanding of Theresa's viewpoint but I again, I am so thankful I am not in those shoes.
|
|
|
Post by seth June 2, 2012 (46 of 82)
|
|
Windsurfer said:
I will admit that the business of disliking the "Operatic style of singing" kind of makes me want to roll on the floor laughing!... and yet, maybe I understand that because it is something of a turn off when someone not really up to it undertakes to sing a passage that strains their voice. If one's first encounter with Opera entails such an experience, one may extrapolate the experience and become very narrowly confined within that opinion. I know a few such people. I cannot make any headway against their prejudice.
Classical music is all about challenging yourself. It's really easy to become comfortable with a few genre and or composers and to never try anything else (I suppose the same is true with many things in life, such as food and travel). While you obviously don't have to like everything, writing off a genre as vast as opera is silly considering how diverse it is -- Verdi, Wagner, Berlioz and Mozart operas are really each their own unique genres.
|
|
|
|
|
|
seth said:
Classical music is all about challenging yourself. It's really easy to become comfortable with a few genre and or composers and to never try anything else (I suppose the same is true with many things in life, such as food and travel). While you obviously don't have to like everything, writing off a genre as vast as opera is silly considering how diverse it is -- Verdi, Wagner, Berlioz and Mozart operas are really each their own unique genres.
There are so many who don't want to be challenged! They won't even listen to any classical music. Those of them who are my relatives disappoint me almost to the point of anger. I wish I knew how to get through to them.
|
|
|
Post by raffells June 2, 2012 (48 of 82)
|
|
Windsurfer said:
I wish I knew how to get through to them.
To be honest I still dislike Organ Music since it was forced upon my church Hall upbringing and even now I only listen to Organ transcriptions of music I know when its in full symphonic type splendour.
A similair aversion to solo cello music probably caused by Donkeys passing wind must have also occurred early in my life.?
Rossini had an opinion of Wagners Opera,Good moments,bad quarter hours?.
This could apply to many padded out operas.
Anyone who can listen to Threepenny Opera suite gets my vote of praise as Ive walked out of a performance along with quite a few others.Yes a headache.
I do have his " Seven deadly Sins" disc but can only enjoy Marianne Faithfulls version in the wrong lower quay.
No orchestral only version could replace her "human" version and the words DO have a meaning that brings the work to life and they are sometimes pretty saucey.
The best sounding CD Ive retained.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Windsurfer said:
There are so many who don't want to be challenged! They won't even listen to any classical music. Those of them who are my relatives disappoint me almost to the point of anger. I wish I knew how to get through to them.
Transport them, one and all, to the Sixteenth and Seventeenth centuries.............
Since classical music, especially in the States, has hit a new acceptance low, better buy those classy classical SACDs while they're still available......and affordable.
Ever hear of "House" Music?
|
|
|
Post by SnaggS June 2, 2012 (50 of 82)
|
|
rammiepie said:
Ever hear of "House" Music?
Heh, rammiepie, "House" finished about 20 years ago..(it was a progression from Italo Disco) but your comment is so out of date, that you are now on the cutting edge again as it's just been coming back in the past year. Good timing ;)
As for Opera. Many people can't stand it. I used to be in this camp. Two things turned me round.
1. Spirto gentil by Donizetti. Have a listen to this Theresa. Its a pre-microphone recording from 1906. In that sense I guess you could honestly say its "Direct to Disc" :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRoZ6KpuoYo
2. Bluray of Ring Cycle with subtitles. Opera makes so much more sense "seen" that sitting at home fighting a libretto. Subsequent listening experiences are much improved.
Hopefully this help make Opera more "excessible" for you :)
Daniel
|
|
