Thread: Who are these people?

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Post by viktor September 24, 2005 (31 of 38)
More to the point, performing music (except when improvising/extemporising) is not a creative procress; it is a recreative process over which the composer (the creator), unless conducting/performing, has no control.
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Post by flyingdutchman September 24, 2005 (32 of 38)
viktor said:

I said that you don´t have to follow the Stravinsky recordings when you perform his music, but the spirit must be there. A lot of conductors have made wonders in his music without taking his markings ad notam. Abbado, the Karajan Apollo is a marvel - and VERY different from the composer´s.

You are again overestimating the "opinion" when we are in this case so overwhelmed by evidence of what Stravinsky wanted. Without that rhythm and lilt the music is dead, that´s what I said, nearly quoting I.S.


Performing music CAN be a creative process, it depends on the music. You are wrong, Polly, totally wrong. Have you ever seen a score by Penderecki? Or Lutoslawski? Or Handel? Have you ever been involved in any performance that calls for ad libitum parts? Of course you haven´t.

The case is closed--Viktor has the corner on all classical knowledge and performance issues. Any music that doesn't follow to the "t" the composer's intent or expectation is crap. And anyone enjoying something that goes outside of the composer's wishes is deluded.

Post by ramesh September 24, 2005 (33 of 38)
viktor said:

I said that you don´t have to follow the Stravinsky recordings when you perform his music, but the spirit must be there. A lot of conductors have made wonders in his music without taking his markings ad notam. Abbado, the Karajan Apollo is a marvel - and VERY different from the composer´s.

I agree with Viktor about Karajan's amazing performance of the suite to Apollo. Makes the strings sound like one hyper instrument, as he did in Verklärte Nacht. Instead of a glutinous serving of Karajan goulash, his refining sensibility in balancing textures whilst allowing the full weight of string tone, really did achieve great things here. Pity one Gramophone reviewer was quite unsympathetic. The Originals transfer was better than the first CD incarnation, but it was quite baffling why Universal Japan issued Karajan's Tchaikovsky 3 on SACD, in preference to the Apollo, Honegger, 1964 La Mer etc; because no SACD comes to mind, capturing in analogue sound, the full weight of the Berlin Philharmonic string tone. ( The Beethoven cycle has a bit of tape hiss, and the 1976 Choral seems to have been mastered by a recording engineer with severe tinnitus.)

Question to mdt. You said you heard Karajan/BPO live, in works which their recordings didn't do justice to. Can you name them?

Post by Polly Nomial September 24, 2005 (34 of 38)
flyingdutchman said:

The case is closed--Viktor has the corner on all classical knowledge and performance issues. Any music that doesn't follow to the "t" the composer's intent or expectation is crap. And anyone enjoying something that goes outside of the composer's wishes is deluded.

I wouldn't be so harsh to Viktor to agree with you but for the clear evidence that he didn't even bother to read my posting properly! If extemporising is not used in Handel then I don't know where it is...

Post by viktor September 24, 2005 (35 of 38)
Polly Nomial said:

I wouldn't be so harsh to Viktor to agree with you but for the clear evidence that he didn't even bother to read my posting properly! If extemporising is not used in Handel then I don't know where it is...

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Post by flyingdutchman September 24, 2005 (36 of 38)
To do or perform (something) without prior preparation or practice: extemporized an acceptance speech.


v. intr.

To perform an act or utter something in an impromptu manner; improvise: “bravely demonstrating his ability to extemporize intelligently” (William Safire).

Post by raffells September 25, 2005 (37 of 38)
Viltor said
Have you ever been involved in any performance that calls for ad libitum parts? Of course you haven´t.

Calm Down Calm Down........Sorry but thats a clear Yellow card to you Viktor....I may refer to you as Wayne Rooney at your current rate,,,furthermore I may incorporate you into the Sacd Opera as a "Norse" Trying to fight off a Zeus lighting bolt...saying..."your Lightening Bolt dosent sound the same as it use to "..however I may not allowed this...Its a One Liner.!.
Funnily enough I heard on the BBC a review of Collins 3rd Symphony of Sibelius..It turns out the the conducter was unhappy at some of the marked tempos or something..Either he or his friend the recording engineer sent a telegtam to Sibelius and basically were told by the composer that the conducter should always alter as he pleases..
Two interesting things from this...One...It shows HOW conducters get recording contracts...
Two...Only works written after the telegram system was evolved can be modified safely when proof can be provided...Dave

Post by viktor September 25, 2005 (38 of 38)
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