Thread: Best Classical on SACD

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Post by SnaggS April 13, 2012 (71 of 157)
bissie said:

With you I can never "win", can I? What did I ever do to you?

No, we didn't drop the prices that are already about the cheapest/least expensive in the market for new SACD:s, but our costs have increased very much and, hadn't we changed the Jewel Cases, we would either have had to increase the price or make fewer productions.

Hey, I think you and your label are awesome. Its just that I would prefer to pay $1 more for the Super Jewel, thats all. I'd pay $4 more for cardboard. The Japanese SACD's are very expensive in comparison, the Esoteric even more so, but they still sell.

I vote with my wallet, and I want you to make a decent return, be able to support your family, kids and employees etc. I just want super jewel cases as well :)

Daniel Söderström

PS. As one Swede to another, how about a no-holds barred Jussi Björling SACD :)

Post by SnaggS April 13, 2012 (72 of 157)
canonical said:

lol.

BIS? What has any of this to do with BIS specially anyway? There are lots of other labels packaging SACDs in old-fashioned CD cases .. e.g. mediocre issues like LSO Live ... and Mariinsky ... whatever happened to them?? ... and Chandos.

None of which I bought. Likewise, out of 1500 SACD's, I have 1 pentatone as I don't like the cover art.

Daniel.

Post by Windsurfer April 13, 2012 (73 of 157)
SnaggS said:
out of 1500 SACD's, I have 1 pentatone as I don't like the cover art.

Daniel.

???????

My god, what you are missing!

Post by Nagraboy April 13, 2012 (74 of 157)
Windsurfer said:

???????

My god, what you are missing!

I think he's pulling our collective legs!

Post by emaidel April 13, 2012 (75 of 157)
BIS packages their SACD's in standard jewel cases. Mobile Fidelity packages theirs in a confusing mess of paper and cardboard. Channel Classics switched from the Super Jewel case to a plastic/cardboard combination. What did this do the sound of all of these recordings? Absolutely nothing, of course.

My background is in the Consumer Electronics Industry, and with phono cartridge companies in particular. I know full well how to package an inferior product in an especially attractive - and expensive looking - package, all the while cheating the consumer into believing he's getting something he isn't.

At least in BIS's instance, the switch back to the standard jewel case was to prevent a price increase. Perhaps that was the same for Channel Classics too. To me, that's plain common sense and smart business logic. Ultimately, it's the product itself that matters, not the manner in which it is presented.

Post by Nagraboy April 13, 2012 (76 of 157)
emaidel said:

BIS packages their SACD's in standard jewel cases. Mobile Fidelity packages theirs in a confusing mess of paper and cardboard. Channel Classics switched from the Super Jewel case to a plastic/cardboard combination. What did this do the sound of all of these recordings? Absolutely nothing, of course.

My background is in the Consumer Electronics Industry, and with phono cartridge companies in particular. I know full well how to package an inferior product in an especially attractive - and expensive looking - package, all the while cheating the consumer into believing he's getting something he isn't.

At least in BIS's instance, the switch back to the standard jewel case was to prevent a price increase. Perhaps that was the same for Channel Classics too. To me, that's plain common sense and smart business logic. Ultimately, it's the product itself that matters, not the manner in which it is presented.

Channel don't seem to have switched to cardboard in my experience. Three recent releases which I've purchased are all in Super jewel boxes:

Vivaldi: Sacred works for soprano and concertos - Florilegium

Mozart, Haydn: Duo Sonatas - Podger, Rogers

The Mahler Album - Amsterdam Sinfonietta

These are three of the latest releases, however I do have some Channel discs in cardboard packages - Fischer/BFO Schubert 9th, Music for the Peace of Utrecht and Dvorak Slavonic Dances. But these are older titles. Maybe there's a reason they release some in Super jewel boxes and others in cardboard packaging.

Cardboard can be done nicely, as well as Channel, Harmonia Mundi's Stile Antico discs are very smartly turned-out. I suppose a SJB is more durable long term though...

Post by bissie April 13, 2012 (77 of 157)
canonical said:

Anyway, all this blah blah about Superjewel boxes being more expensive doesn't wash. Try for size an excellent disc like:

Arvo Pärt: Spiegel im Spiegel - Hudson, Klinger, Kruse

which sells for £5.99 in a proper Superjewel case. And it is consistently one of the best selling SACDs on the Amazon UK charts. And as others have noted, major labels spruiking CDs sometimes dress them up in superjewel boxes today just to give them an extra edge of modernity.

It may be that you don't like BIS, me or both.

But I would rather that you didn't call me a liar. That someone is discounting an SACD doesn't mean that the Super JB isn't (much) more expensive.

But you did miss the real point, which was pointed out earlier in this thread: we are a single-inventory company. We cannot, repeat CANNOT, hike the price for ordinary CD buyers, so that you get a Super JC. I would be utterly surprised, if as many as 10% of our buyers own an SACD player, much less a surround system. Should the 90+% be "punished" with a price, higher than the normal CD price, because you and a few more want to have the Super JB? And please don't say that we can go back to double inventory. We tried, and THAT is a real no-no.

And I did "ask permission" on this very Forum, and the overwhelming majority of those who answered didn't make a fuss.

Robert

Post by bissie April 13, 2012 (78 of 157)
SnaggS said:

Hey, I think you and your label are awesome. Its just that I would prefer to pay $1 more for the Super Jewel, thats all. I'd pay $4 more for cardboard. The Japanese SACD's are very expensive in comparison, the Esoteric even more so, but they still sell.

I vote with my wallet, and I want you to make a decent return, be able to support your family, kids and employees etc. I just want super jewel cases as well :)

Daniel Söderström

PS. As one Swede to another, how about a no-holds barred Jussi Björling SACD :)

Thank you. Naxos actually just released an awesome Jussi B Box, in good sound, I've been told. Go with that.

Robert

Post by Nagraboy April 13, 2012 (79 of 157)
bissie said:

...

But you did miss the real point, which was pointed out earlier in this thread: we are a single-inventory company. We cannot, repeat CANNOT, hike the price for ordinary CD buyers, so that you get a Super JC. I would be utterly surprised, if as many as 10% of our buyers own an SACD player, much less a surround system. Should the 90+% be "punished" with a price, higher than the normal CD price, because you and a few more want to have the Super JB? And please don't say that we can go back to double inventory. We tried, and THAT is a real no-no.

Very very good points.

It should be noted that not all SACDs are exclusively for the ultra-picky audiophile market. The many discs we see coming from Japan - like the SHM-SACDs - are clearly not a product for the music-buying public at large. This is reflected in the price.

BIS discs (regardless of their excellent audiophile sound quality) are purchased by a much wider range of listeners, from SACD enthusiasts on this forum, to people with no interest in HiFi or knowledge of the SACD format. So BIS clearly can't go overboard on the lavish packaging (pushing up the price) if they're to compete in the market place with standard RBCD releases from other labels bought by people who just want to listen to the music.

Post by emaidel April 13, 2012 (80 of 157)
Nagraboy said:

Channel don't seem to have switched to cardboard in my experience

My first Channel Classics purchase was thier disc # 21604, Rachmaninoff's 2nd Symphony, and my last was disc # 26109, Mahler's 4th. The former is in a super jewel case, and the latter in a plastic/cardboard combination. I guess it's whatever Channel Classics chooses to use at the time. Fortunately, both discs are stunners in every way possible.

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