Post by Arnaldo January 7, 2012 (31 of 244)
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Jonalogic said:
... I was a real audio engineer in the BBC. Were you?
... f you can't understand what I'm saying when I use technical language, you might try to get an education as well as a life.
I greatly enjoyed your BBC-sponsored, Blumlein-miked, unedited, and straight-to-DSD recording of the plumbing's acoustic resonance during intermission at the Proms. The sound of the flushing toilets was startlingly realistic, with no phase distortions whatsoever between the men's and women's restrooms on either channel. Magnifico! As a humble music-lover, I'd rate it miles above lowly recordings by the armchair-engineers at Polyhymnia, Exton and BIS.
We at SA-CD.net are indeed truly blessed by the presence, and teachings, of a couple of world-renowned engineers in our midst...
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Post by AmonRa January 7, 2012 (32 of 244)
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Back to almost-topic: Even if there are dozens of mics, naturally it does not mean that all those mics are actually used in the final recording. It could be a pure AB or Decca tree minimalist miked affair for all we know. Like Bissie says it is done mostly for safety reasons.
Digital delay is easy to do nowadays, there is no need for digital delay lines. As all microphones are recorded on their own tracks these track can be shifted in the DAW at will with one sample accuracy. With 96 kHz PCM this means 3.5 mm location accuracy compared to main pair.
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Post by Jonalogic January 7, 2012 (33 of 244)
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AmonRa said:
Back to almost-topic: Even if there are dozens of mics, naturally it does not mean that all those mics are actually used in the final recording. It could be a pure AB or Decca tree minimalist miked affair for all we know. Like Bissie says it is done mostly for safety reasons.
Digital delay is easy to do nowadays, there is no need for digital delay lines. As all microphones are recorded on their own tracks these track can be shifted in the DAW at will with one sample accuracy. With 96 kHz PCM this means 3.5 mm location accuracy compared to main pair.
Thanks for steering this back on track.
True, and it will then depend on how actively and carefully the spots are incorporated into the basic mix, of course. But having lots of mikes temps one to actually use them, I expect.
Safety I can understand, but I'd rather edit with whole takes of music than with individual instruments. But that's probably down to my razor-blade era mentality, and I can see that time/resource-limitations might well force one into the latter approach.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing per se against using lots of mikes, providing it's done carefully and sensitively by folk who know what they're doing. It's the clowns that don't that end up producing the archetypal 'wall of sound' and unnatural house sound of some labels associated with over-miking.
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Post by tailspn January 7, 2012 (34 of 244)
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Jonalogic said:
True, although I must confess I was a bit disappointed in the Time of War. I expected more SoundMirror and less Pentatone-like sound...
Well, there ya go. As I said, everyone has in their minds ear what sounds best/most realistic. I can share with you that the only thing Pentatone about War is the production of the album cover and booklet, and distribution network. The Ives is miced with no spot mics, no sweetening, recorded and edited entirely in DSD. The remainder have some spot mics as you can see in the Kalmer youtube video.
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Post by Jonalogic January 7, 2012 (35 of 244)
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tailspn said:
Well, there ya go. As I said, everyone has in their minds ear what sounds best/most realistic. I can share with you that the only thing Pentatone about War is the production of the album cover and booklet, and distribution network. The Ives is miced with no spot mics, no sweetening, recorded and edited entirely in DSD. The remainder have some spot mics as you can see in the Kalmer youtube video.
Yes, and to be fair I did very much enjoy this disc musically, particularly the haunting Ives, although the Adams rather overstays its welcome I think. Not what I expected at all!
The problem is, the VW 4 is overshadowed both sonically and musically IMO by the terrific (and terrifying) Hickox on Chandos.
The Britten Sinfonia certainly stomps on the rather limp rendition on the Reference Recording; but, try as I might, Britten's own recording remains nonpareil. Hint to Decca/Universal, or whoever owns the tapes this week...
Still, musically, there is a lot to cherish to here. I'm not a great fan of the sound, I must confess, but it does not get in the way of the music.
That's always the important thing.
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Jonalogic said:
Yes, and to be fair I did very much enjoy this disc musically, particularly the haunting Ives, although the Adams rather overstays its welcome I think. Not what I expected at all!
The problem is, the VW 4 is overshadowed both sonically and musically IMO by the terrific (and terrfying) Hickox on Chandos.
The Britten Sinfonia certainly stomps on the rather limp rendition on the Reference Recording; but, try as I might, Britten's own recording remains nonpareil. Hint to Decca/Universal, or whoever owns the tapes this week...
Still, musically, there is a lot to cherish to here. I'm not a great fan of the sound, I must confess, but it does not get in the way of the music.
That's always the important thing.
But I think you have also been affected by your own research, by that I mean you allowed yourself to become part of your own study. It seems clear you don't like Mch recordings and that your claims of other's nausea and confusion regarding 4 channel could also apply to you?
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Post by Jonalogic January 7, 2012 (37 of 244)
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flyingdutchman said:
But I think you have also been affected by your own research, by that I mean you allowed yourself to become part of your own study. It seems clear you don't like Mch recordings and that your claims of other's nausea and confusion regarding 4 channel could also apply to you?
Sorry, but post-hoc psychoanalysis 25 years after the event doesn't explain that one! I explained once at length on this Forum why I still listen in stereo - that's because 95+% of my music is in that form, I can't afford 5 channels as good as the two I have, and my domestic circumstances do not readily allow it.
In any case, you misunderstand: the nausea and confusion I refered to was as a direct result as heavily phase shifted signals, not 4-channel per se.
I have never observed discrete 4 or 5-channel reproduction to cause such effects. Matrix quad could and did, however.
The tests did clearly demonstrate to me, however, that auditory acuity and image localisation ability are heavily optimised for humans in the front quadrant, where stereo lives. In other words, we may know that sounds are there in the side and rear quadrants, but we tend not to be able to localise them too well.
Not really news, there are sound evolutionary reasons for such a bias. Our eyes face forward (a typical predator adaptation) and we primarily communicate or catch things we're looking at.
I bet things would have been different had I been testing directional hearing in prey animals like gazelles. But we didn't have the funding, and they tend not to listen too much to music, anyway! Too busy detecting and dodging the leopards crawling up from behind them...
QED.
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Post by hiredfox January 7, 2012 (38 of 244)
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The Collectors Room in Salisbury, UK today had no information suggesting this BIS recording was being released to them any time soon... ?
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Post by rammiepie January 7, 2012 (39 of 244)
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hiredfox said:
The Collectors Room in Salisbury, UK today had no information suggesting this BIS recording was being released to them any time soon... ?
Bissie just stated in a previous post (#7 on THIS thread) that England is on a different time schedule and usually receives BIS SACDs later than other vendors (?). Crotchet doesn't even list the Vanska Sibelius under new or upcoming SACD releases, yet.
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Post by Jonty January 7, 2012 (40 of 244)
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I would expect it to be a March release here in the UK.
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