Thread: Columbia Kind of Blue SACD

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Post by inburrito November 14, 2011 (1 of 17)
Does anyone know what kind of master this SACD was made from?

It sounds bad. Very bad in comparison to vinyl.

Post by Claude November 15, 2011 (2 of 17)
Which one? There are three Kind of Blue SACDs.

Miles Davis: Kind of Blue
Miles Davis: Kind of Blue
Miles Davis: Kind of Blue

They have all been mastered from the original three-track tape, by Mark Wilder.

I have the first and the last from this list, and they both sound great. I only played the stereo layer.

The multichannel layer represents the three-track master on the front channels and adds artificial reverb on the rear channels, so when you play it you must make sure your multichannel system is configured correctly, or it might sound weird otherwise (the trumpet is on the center channel only). The rear channels can be switched off.

Also note that all current CD/SACD reissues have the corrected tape speed, while older vinyl and CD releases run a little bit too fast on the the three first tracks.

Here's a Stereophile article about the remastering of the album:

http://www.stereophile.com/thefifthelement/206fifth

Post by DSD November 15, 2011 (3 of 17)
Inburrito, as Claude explained there are multiple SACD versions, in addition there are tons of LP versions. I would be interested in which vinyl version you compared the SACD to.

I have the Classic Records 200 gram single LP version and it greatly surpassed the single-layer SACD I had Miles Davis: Kind of Blue . The Classic Records LP just sounds more realistic. Remastering engineer Bernie Grundman is able to get unbelievably great sound onto vinyl LPs.

There was also a two LP set from Classic Records with both the original speed and corrected speed for the first three songs.

Sony IMHO does not get the best sound from their own masters, others do a much better job, check out Duke Ellington: Blues in Orbit to hear what I mean. For the very best sound it will likely be one of the audiophile LP versions until someone like MFSL or Analogue Productions releases Kind of Blue on SACD.

Post by analogue November 15, 2011 (4 of 17)
Gentleman.

If any of you are looking for the best sacd version of Kind Of Blue I would seriously recommend the two channel Japanese version from 1999. This version also includes the additional alternate track of track 5.

0ddly the original American sacd was mastered from the original tapes as is the Japanese version. However the U.S. sacd is so low in volume with no bite whatsover.

I cant recommend the latter version strongly enough. It is simply staggering how good it is compared to the former version. The realism of the two saxaphones.....the transient attacks...the low end information. Its all truly amazing.

Cheers,
Rembrandt

Post by Oakland November 15, 2011 (5 of 17)
inburrito said:

Does anyone know what kind of master this SACD was made from?

It sounds bad. Very bad in comparison to vinyl.

There are so may different versions of KOB floating around with different pedigree that apples to oranges comparisons are inevitable. I have at least 8 versions, three on vinyl.

Having said that I found the multi-channel version of Kind of Blue to be superior to any of the two channel versions I own. BUT not *necessarily* or only because of multi-channel. It just seems to be better mastered overall. But the multi-channel mix definitely helps. Particularly, Paul Chambers on bass as well as Jimmy Cobb on drums benefits from the multi-channel mix. The center channel in particular really seems to help the Chambers presentation. The bass is anchored as it is not in most two channel versions. The low end is present in all 5 speakers. In the two channel single layer SACD version I thought the bass was weak. In fact, the two channel layer presents the weakest bass content out of all the "Kind of Blue" masterings I have heard. The multi-channel ups the ante on the bass considerably.

This is definitely a 5 channel mix. In "So What" the rears are almost reticent to a fault until the first sax. But the rears are never intrusive. That is, the rears are never perceived from the listening position. In fact, I checked a couple of times to insure that they were even on, but on they were. Overall, while the new mix does not directly address the blatant hard left/right presentation that was popular in early stereo recordings, the presentation is more natural than you find in the two-channel version due to the ambience.

Robert C. Lang

Post by tream November 15, 2011 (6 of 17)
Oakland said:

Having said that I found the multi-channel version of Kind of Blue to be superior to any of the two channel versions I own.

This is definitely a 5 channel mix.


Robert C. Lang

Robert - which version is this one? I just checked my copy - I have the Japanese SACD.

Tom

Post by Oakland November 15, 2011 (7 of 17)
tream said:

Robert - which version is this one? I just checked my copy - I have the Japanese SACD.

Tom

Tom,

The multi-channel version I own (and also the two-channel version) came in a domestic like plastic jewel case with the classic "Columbia" label. It is almost certainly a domestic (US) release because all my Japanese Miles Davis SACDs are SME that come in cardboard bound cases. My version is a single layer SACD (no CD layer) that has both two-channel and multi-channel content. The label looks completely identical to the two-channel(also no CD layer) that I also have except the label says "stereo/multi-ch".

Hope that helps.

Robert C. Lang

Post by inburrito November 15, 2011 (8 of 17)
I have the Columbia/Legacy SACD from 1997 and the Columbia/Legacy 180g vinyl - among other versions.

The SACD (I listen in stereo through a modded Oppo 95) is very much harmonically bleached (a bit thin, and strident) compared to the LP.

Granted, my vinyl setup is far more expensive, but I have other SACDs (Davis' Cookin' would be one example) that come far closer to the LP.

Post by tream November 15, 2011 (9 of 17)
inburrito said:

I have the Columbia/Legacy SACD from 1997 and the Columbia/Legacy 180g vinyl - among other versions.

The SACD (I listen in stereo through a modded Oppo 95) is very much harmonically bleached (a bit thin, and strident) compared to the LP.

Granted, my vinyl setup is far more expensive, but I have other SACDs (Davis' Cookin' would be one example) that come far closer to the LP.

What vinyl setup do you have? It would be great to know your system.

Thanks,

Tom

Post by inburrito November 15, 2011 (10 of 17)
Basis Ovation + TriPlanar V + Ortofon Rondo Bronze + Herron tubed phono stage.

(I would say a vinyl chain is always going to be pricier than a digital source because there is just so much more to it.)

As I said I have other SACDs that compare more favorably to the vinyl. And the Marantz SA7 I used to have was a bit closer to LP. But, darn it if the vinyl isn't always a bit more dynamic in the midrange, a bit more live-sounding, with more body and depth, and doesn't have that bit of edge that even the best SACDs seem to have once in awhile. (If that's 'more accurate' cause it's on the recording - Ok. It's not there in live music.)

Mainly I just wanted to see if others' opinions of the KoB SACD jived with my own.

It is a perfect example of why I cannot go all-in to SACD.

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