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Discussion: Yes: Fragile

Posts: 33
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Post by rammiepie November 16, 2011 (21 of 33)
dcramer said:

My copy of the disc has a one second dropout at approximately 3:22 of Track 6 (Long Distance Runaround). Has anyone else experience this? I see no flaws on the disc - maybe I should try some "Rammielube" on it?

Maybe it'll improve your SAX life.......provided you're into that kind of music!

But seriously, if there's a drop~out..........no lube will correct that. I'll just stick with my DVD~A.......minus the bonus cut (and drop~out).

Post by dcramer November 16, 2011 (22 of 33)
See? This is what I get for trying an expensive Japanese reissue - although the recording is otherwise quite good. The ironic thing is that I find the dropout more annoying than the few slight tics in the queiter passages of my vinyl original. By the way, I DO have an old soprano sax lying around that I like to play once in a while - my wife is happy that I'm maintaining at least some sax appeal in my later years.

Post by rammiepie November 16, 2011 (23 of 33)
dcramer said:

See? This is what I get for trying an expensive Japanese reissue - although the recording is otherwise quite good. The ironic thing is that I find the dropout more annoying than the few slight tics in the queiter passages of my vinyl original. By the way, I DO have an old soprano sax lying around that I like to play once in a while - my wife is happy that I'm maintaining at least some sax appeal in my later years.

BTW, have you tried FLOSSING your discs. It guards against CD rot!

Maybe it's time to trade in the sax for a new SACD player that doesn't drop out..........

Post by dcramer November 16, 2011 (24 of 33)
Arnaldo said:

Just checked my copy and found no dropout whatsoever on the SACD stereo layer, even after playing the section multiple times. I also used the same track to conduct a brief comparison with MoFi's Fragile RBCD, and the SACD is on another level altogether, with much more air and detail, playing at comparable volume levels.

Thanks for checking - I will still enjoy the disc and agree it's a really fine recording.

Post by DSD November 16, 2011 (25 of 33)
dcramer said:

My copy of the disc has a one second dropout at approximately 3:22 of Track 6 (Long Distance Runaround)...

Players either tick, click, skip or mute when error concealment is unable to synthesize missing data, my current player mutes, which sounds very much like a dropout. If your player also "mutes" then it could be an invisible speck of microscopic dirt, a good cleaning with a zero residue disc cleaner should fix the problem.

Post by dcramer November 16, 2011 (26 of 33)
rammiepie said:

BTW, have you tried FLOSSING your discs. It guards against CD rot!

Maybe it's time to trade in the sax for a new SACD player that doesn't drop out..........

You may have a point actually (no, not the hygine part); I've been using my old backup player since I sold my VSE Modded SCD777ES while deciding what new player to pull the trigger on - the Sony's reliability problems and lack of replacement parts were making me nervous. I'll listen to the disc in my friend's system during our next listening session.

Post by rammiepie November 16, 2011 (27 of 33)
dcramer said:

You may have a point actually (no, not the hygine part); I've been using my old backup player since I sold my VSE Modded SCD777ES while deciding what new player to pull the trigger on - the Sony's reliability problems and lack of replacement parts were making me nervous. I'll listen to the disc in my friend's system during our next listening session.

If you can find a good deal on a Sony 5400ES then I would advise you to take the plunge. It needs considerable breaking in but it is a fine machine and unlike the OPPO variety, it only plays CD/SACDs in stereo via analogue and balanced outs and multichannel via the HDMI output.

I and a lot of other posters have had NO problems but there have been reports of motor noise, etc. by some posters on other websites.

And if you caress it by playing a saxophone solo for it now and then, I'm sure it will reward you with years of quality service.

Good luck in your endeavor.

Post by Johnno November 17, 2011 (28 of 33)
rammiepie said:

If you can find a good deal on a Sony 5400ES then I would advise you to take the plunge. It needs considerable breaking in but it is a fine machine and unlike the OPPO variety, it only plays CD/SACDs in stereo via analogue and balanced outs and multichannel via the HDMI output.

I and a lot of other posters have had NO problems but there have been reports of motor noise, etc. by some posters on other websites.

And if you caress it by playing a saxophone solo for it now and then, I'm sure it will reward you with years of quality service.

Good luck in your endeavor.

No motor noise with my XA5400ES either. Actually when I'm playing an SACD through it, I'm not aware of anything else but the music -- which is, of course, as it should be -- and the player isn't all that distant from my listening chair.

I had meant to discuss my SACD of "Fragile" before now but somehow the days have passed more quickly than I realised. I'm certainly impressed with it and the sound is both open and spacious and Jon Anderson's voice more focussed than it is on the CD I also have.

I'm sure I've asked this question before but has the master for this and other albums from a similar source (like Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly" and Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours") stemmed from the masters of previous DVD-A releases?

Post by rammiepie November 17, 2011 (29 of 33)
My educated guess, Johnno....is yes. It seems that these Warner SACDs are sourced from the same masters used for the DVD~As but we're talking about almost 9~10 years since the DVD~As appeared. I have the DVD~A of Hotel California and the 5.1 Warner Japanese SACD. Boy, do they sound different.......not in the 5.1 content but in the sound itself. There is prominent bass on both but the Sony 5400ES' rendering has a fuller, almost ever present underlying bass line throughout which is not as prominent on the DVD~A (played via the Meridian 800). And why I do say yes is that to create a new 5.1 master when ALL the announced Warners 5.1 SACDs have ALL been released before as DVD~As would be an added expense.

What I do wish Warners would do is release the 5.1 masters NOT released in DVD~A such as Crosby Stills and Nash, Madonna's Greatest Hits, Frank Sinatra/Antonio Carlos Jobim, Neil Young's After The Gold Rush and a host of others which were prepared but never released as 5.1 DVD~As.

So, I would say that the mastering of the SACDs has been done extraordinarily well based on Hotel California.

Would I opt for the Doors 5.1 by Warner/Japan or wait for the Analogue Productions new 5.1 done on all tubed equipment. I think AP's reissue will be a clear winner but since I already own the DVD~A Perception Box and the first album (the Doors) is not a great exemplar of 5.1 mixing, I'd opt for the later albums which have a much more aggressive 5.1 mix (especially L.A. Woman)

Post by The Mule February 21, 2012 (30 of 33)
I just got the Fragile DVD-Audio and honestly was not too impressed. I only have around 15 SACD's and one other DVD-Audio (Tom Petty Damn the Torpedoes), as I just got my Oppo player around 2 months ago. Fragile is arguably my favorite rock album of all-time, so I don't know what to think. I've loved every SACD I've bought, but didn't like either of the DVD-Audio discs I've purchased. Coincidence? I don't know. However, I think I'm going to try the Fragile SACD just in case.

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