Thread: DSD and SACD questions

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Post by Kal Rubinson December 18, 2010 (81 of 87)
Disbeliever said:

Without a video display ,I am unable to see the relevance of EDID re the SACD/CD only Sony XA5400ES which Kal mentions in relation to use with various pre-pros ?

Sigh. Do you, at least, see that the function of EDID is to insure that the only signals exchanged are limited to those appropriate for the "sink" device? If so, it should be apparent that the EDID from a "sink" that cannot process DSD would tell the "source" not to send DSD and, if possible, to send PCM. That's how the XA5400ES and other devices respond.

Post by Disbeliever December 18, 2010 (82 of 87)
Kal Rubinson said:

Sigh. Do you, at least, see that the function of EDID is to insure that the only signals exchanged are limited to those appropriate for the "sink" device? If so, it should be apparent that the EDID from a "sink" that cannot process DSD would tell the "source" not to send DSD and, if possible, to send PCM. That's how the XA5400ES and other devices respond.

Many thanks for your response but whilst I admit it is too technical for me, I am still very interested in knowing how you know that the XA5400ES now switches properly between DSD & PCM as its partner the DA5400ES only outputs PCM.

Post by Kal Rubinson December 18, 2010 (83 of 87)
Disbeliever said:

(1) Many thanks for your response but whilst I admit it is too technical for me, I am still very interested in knowing how you know that the XA5400ES now switches properly between DSD & PCM

(2) as its partner the DA5400ES only outputs PCM.

(1) I have used it with devices that indicate the input format and I have conferred with engineers who have configured the EDIDs on a number of the connected devices. All this has been detailed over the past year in my columns and posts.

(2) the DA5400ES "outputs" PCM?

Post by Disbeliever December 18, 2010 (84 of 87)
Kal Rubinson said:

(1) I have used it with devices that indicate the input format and I have conferred with engineers who have configured the EDIDs on a number of the connected devices. All this has been detailed over the past year in my columns and posts.

(2) the DA5400ES "outputs" PCM?

1. I have only seen your posts on this Forum.

2. When I asked Sony if the DA5400ES decodes DSD direct to analogue without converting to LPCM , this is the reply I received which Tim Vine-Lott Air Studios says is blatantly misleading. " The DA5400ES uses the full resolution of the DSD signal (32 bit) from input filtering through to processing the signal; then and only then does the amplifier at the final stage convert to PCM. This way you can ensure the full resolution of the DSD signal can be fully utilised" After what Tim Vine -Lott told me, I put my query to Hi-Fi News and Paul Miller published my letter together with his reply " To fully realise the monotonic potential of this DSD data used by SACD ,the bitstream it should be converted using a true '1-bit converter'. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, only the the very first SACD players (including Sony's SCD 1) employed such a device. Modern 'universal' CD/DVD/SACD players employ similarly universal DAC technologies. These ICs feature DSD compatible inputs but the bitstream is invariably downsampled to a lower rate at a higher bit depth (converssely the LPCM inputs are upsampled and truncated to a similar 4-5 bits) before D/A conversion. At this point DSD becomes LPCM and its 'uniqueness is diminished. SONY claims to maintain the high dynamic range of SACD (at bass/midrange rather than high frequencies by decimating the 1-bit/2.8224MHz DSD to 30 bit/176.4KHz LPCM before D/A conversion. If nothing else, the downsampling is necessary because most numeric DSP (soundfield modes etc) will only operate on LPCM. Sony's SCD-XA5400ES player is equipped with a 'universal' DSD1796 DAC from Burr-Brown.

Post by tailspn December 18, 2010 (85 of 87)
Disbeliever said:

Sony's SCD-XA5400ES player is equipped with a 'universal' DSD1796 DAC from Burr-Brown.

Yes it is. Here's a link to its data sheet:

http://www.datasheetdir.com/DSD1796+download

The SCD-XA5400ES does convert 2.84MHz DSD to analog, all be it 2 channels. What goes on in the DA5400ES receiver, connected by HDMI, is an entirely different process, as described by your many quotes. What's your point?

Tom

Post by Kal Rubinson December 18, 2010 (86 of 87)
Disbeliever said:

1. I have only seen your posts on this Forum.

2. ...SONY claims to maintain the high dynamic range of SACD (at bass/midrange rather than high frequencies by decimating the 1-bit/2.8224MHz DSD to 30 bit/176.4KHz LPCM before D/A conversion. If nothing else, the downsampling is necessary because most numeric DSP (soundfield modes etc) will only operate on LPCM. Sony's SCD-XA5400ES player is equipped with a 'universal' DSD1796 DAC from Burr-Brown.

1. OK but that does not obligate me to repeat myself.

2. So, the DA5400ES does not OUTPUT DSD, only analog. The XA5400ES will output DSD or PCM @ 24/1764 or analog.

Kal

Post by Wilhelm—Xu Zhong-Rui August 29, 2014 (87 of 87)

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