Thread: Help! Connecting Sony XA9000ES via iLink to Theta Casablanca III Pre/Proc - Need iLink Converter

Posts: 15
Page: 1 2 next

Post by GadgetGuru September 24, 2010 (1 of 15)
Folks,

I have a Sony XA9000ES SACD Player (which comes with an iLink interface, which I believe outputs pure DSD via encrypted iLink). I want to be able to connect this player, through iLink, to my Theta Digital Casablanca III either via Coax Digital, Toslink, or AES/EBU. Can anyone please suggest a really good interface that would help me accomplish this task?

Barring an interface, is there a good/inexpensive pre that is iLink-enabled that might be able to output the iLink stream in either Coax or TOSLINK?

Thanks in advance,
-Ken

P.S. Can anyone confirm that the output via iLink on the SCD-XA9000ES is, in fact, pure DSD and not PCM? Thanks!

Post by sunmoon9 October 4, 2010 (2 of 15)
Hi Ken,

I do have the exact same player connected by i-Link to an Integra RDC-7.1. i-Link is a proprietary connection using a unique cable and connector! You have to turn the i-Link output on from the front panel of the player. When the i-Link is on all other digital outputs are disabled. Also only i-Link outputs DSD stream, as it is copy protected!

I like the i-Link interface so far. It may be even better than the HDMI connection - less jitter and contamination!

Post by Disbeliever October 4, 2010 (3 of 15)
sunmoon9 said:

Hi Ken,

I do have the exact same player connected by i-Link to an Integra RDC-7.1. i-Link is a proprietary connection using a unique cable and connector! You have to turn the i-Link output on from the front panel of the player. When the i-Link is on all other digital outputs are disabled. Also only i-Link outputs DSD stream, as it is copy protected!

I like the i-Link interface so far. It may be even better than the HDMI connection - less jitter and contamination!

How do you know that ilink on Sony 9000ES has less jitter & contamination than HDMI ? In fact via HDMI jitter is lower on the XA5400ES and overall distortion is also lower than on the 9000Es which I found to be an unsatifactory player despite rave review in Stereophile.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 October 4, 2010 (4 of 15)
GadgetGuru said:

Folks,

I have a Sony XA9000ES SACD Player (which comes with an iLink interface, which I believe outputs pure DSD via encrypted iLink). I want to be able to connect this player, through iLink, to my Theta Digital Casablanca III either via Coax Digital, Toslink, or AES/EBU. Can anyone please suggest a really good interface that would help me accomplish this task?

Barring an interface, is there a good/inexpensive pre that is iLink-enabled that might be able to output the iLink stream in either Coax or TOSLINK?

Thanks in advance,
-Ken

P.S. Can anyone confirm that the output via iLink on the SCD-XA9000ES is, in fact, pure DSD and not PCM? Thanks!

Ken - Even if you could get the i-link connection established, I seriously doubt that the Casablanca would know what to do with it. AFAIK, it does not support DSD. I do not know exactly what you need, but likely it would have to be a PCM solution, more or less like a Meridian. Like the 9000, i-link is history.

Last I heard, Theta was working hard on HDMI support for their controllers. I doubt that i-link is on their radar screens or anyone else's these days. If you have not done so, I suggest you contact them. I think they are your only hope for a solution, other than analog.

Post by The Seventh Taylor October 4, 2010 (5 of 15)
GadgetGuru said:

Barring an interface, is there a good/inexpensive pre that is iLink-enabled that might be able to output the iLink stream in either Coax or TOSLINK?

Suppose there is, what signal do you expect to get across coax or optical? Do you want do downconvert DSD to SPDIF i.e. red book audio quality? I can't even imagine you'd be happy wih Dolby Digital or DTS if you're so worried about even conversion to PCM.

(No, there is no product that will put DSD on coax or optical and even if there were, your amplifier wouldn't be able to handle it.)

Post by trntbl October 5, 2010 (6 of 15)
GadgetGuru said:

Folks,

I have a Sony XA9000ES SACD Player (which comes with an iLink interface, which I believe outputs pure DSD via encrypted iLink). I want to be able to connect this player, through iLink, to my Theta Digital Casablanca III either via Coax Digital, Toslink, or AES/EBU. Can anyone please suggest a really good interface that would help me accomplish this task?

Barring an interface, is there a good/inexpensive pre that is iLink-enabled that might be able to output the iLink stream in either Coax or TOSLINK?

Thanks in advance,
-Ken

P.S. Can anyone confirm that the output via iLink on the SCD-XA9000ES is, in fact, pure DSD and not PCM? Thanks!

You can connect i.Link player to i.Link receiver only. Connecting XA9000ES to spdif (coax/optical) is easy, because it has those outputs built in.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 October 5, 2010 (7 of 15)
trntbl said:

You can connect i.Link player to i.Link receiver only. Connecting XA9000ES to spdif (coax/optical) is easy, because it has those outputs built in.

Yes, but then it would not be hi rez PCM in Mch. Stereo, yes. DSD will not, of course, go over coax, but I don't think that works with the Theta anyway.

Post by GadgetGuru October 21, 2010 (8 of 15)
Okay, so let's take the Theta out of the equation. If I had a pre-pro, like the new Integra 80.2 which CAN decode DSD, is there a way to extract the encrypted DSD stream coming from iLink and converting that to HDMI, for example? If I remember correctly, the Sony SCD-XA5400ES does something similar in that the DSD stream goes over HDMI for decoding by the processor.

The net, net of this all is to be able to find a way to get the native DSD stream out of the player to be decoded by the processor - preferably one with much higher quality DACs than what the player comes with.

Thoughts?

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 October 21, 2010 (9 of 15)
GadgetGuru said:

Okay, so let's take the Theta out of the equation. If I had a pre-pro, like the new Integra 80.2 which CAN decode DSD, is there a way to extract the encrypted DSD stream coming from iLink and converting that to HDMI, for example? If I remember correctly, the Sony SCD-XA5400ES does something similar in that the DSD stream goes over HDMI for decoding by the processor.

The net, net of this all is to be able to find a way to get the native DSD stream out of the player to be decoded by the processor - preferably one with much higher quality DACs than what the player comes with.

Thoughts?

I do not think there is any easy way to deal with I-link, which is I believe ancient history by now. Nor, is there any easy way to convert DSD to HDMI, which has copy protection controls built in to its protocol for DSD. Your player needs to do that directly with proper licensing, etc. from Sony.

If you want a pure DSD to analog conversion in Mch, I'd suggest you abandon the Sony 9000. You can get good results from an Oppo BDP-83SE, now discontinued, but its BDP-93 successor will be out in a few months. The Nuforce version of it might still be available now, though. There are other, pricier alternatives from Marantz, Denon, etc. The player output will be analog and you need a good analog controller for it.

The Integra 80.2 will do a direct DSD-analog conversion via HDMI. I have the 80.1, but I am upgrading to the 80.2 (Audyssey XT/32 is the sole reason.) In direct DSD-analog conversion, it sounds pretty dreadful. I never listen to it that way. The Integra DAC's are fine, but the reason is because there is no bass management, speaker distance compensation or room EQ possible in DSD. Those DSP processes require conversion to PCM. And, it sounds really good using the Integra's DSP processesing to provide these necessary corrections. The only way to do pure DSD these days is with identical, equidistant speakers, which can sound really good, but at a high price requiring a big listening space. That, and I honestly do not think the sonic penalties for conversion of DSD-PCM are significant at all.

I think you are on a wild goose chase. The Sony 9000 is a major limitation that is obsolescent. What if it breaks in the near future? I considered the Casablanca myself over 3 years ago. But, I moved on when I realized how important HDMI was going to become for Blu-ray, and Theta did not support it. I got an Integra DTC 9.8 plus Oppo player and I have since upgraded in those respective brands. HDMI is a piece of cake between them, and I am quite elated with the sound. In a comparison at a friend's place, this combo easily and totally vanquished a pure-DSD setup (Audio Research/Esoteric). I have since heard an amazing pure-DSD setup (EMM Labs, Sound Labs, Parasound JC-1's) that is superior to my system, but you do not want to know how expensive it was or how much space and room treatment it took.

Kal Rubinson had found a way to modify an Oppo player to put out 3 stereo steams in PCM via coax for the 5.1 channels of SACD. He did that for compatibility with a Meridian controller, also DSD incompatible. Perhaps something like that idea would work with your Theta. But, I just do not see how it would be worth the time and trouble in your case. Dump the Theta and the Sony, invest $3K in an Integra 80.2 and Oppo BDP-93 (when available), and you will be a very happy man. I am quite sure of it. Is there better than this combo? Yes, but how much better at what price? I think the answers are slightly better at a way, way higher price. For example, in a side-by-side comparison I did, an Anthem D2V at nearly 4x the price of the Integra was virtually indistinguishable on SACD or hi rez digital material. It was, however, distinctly better on analog inputs.

Post by The Seventh Taylor October 21, 2010 (10 of 15)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

I do not think there is any easy way to deal with I-link, which is I believe ancient history by now. Nor, is there any easy way to convert DSD to HDMI, which has copy protection controls built in to its protocol for DSD. Your player needs to do that directly with proper licensing, etc. from Sony.

Well, HDMI uses HDCP, i.Link has DTCP. It is conceivable to have a converter box that accepts DSD via copy-protected i.Link and outputs it on a copy-protected HDMI port but it's not the sort of device you could solder in your den. It would involve these licenses plus significant software and hardware development. I don't think it exists and wouldn't count on it ever appearing, considering the faded popularity of IEEE1394 aka FireWire.

Page: 1 2 next

Closed