Thread: audyssey

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Post by mx2005 August 9, 2009 (31 of 116)
The Sony sounds interesting, but isn't the SACD player as easy to find as Lord Lucan?

I am interested in this SACD over HDMI thing, though.... The Onkyo, Audiolab 8000AP are in my sights right now but as I'm in the first stages of research I'm open to ideas. I'd consider putting something like the new Marantz sacd/blu-ray flagship into my existing amp - but that is now 10 years old...but still sounds great.... I have a lot to think about!

Post by mx2005 August 9, 2009 (32 of 116)
Disbeliever said:

Ifind the auto set up systems that I have tried a waste of time.

I think it's more about the RoomEQ really.... auto set-up on its own doesn't interest me.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 August 9, 2009 (33 of 116)
Disbeliever said:

Ifind the auto set up systems that I have tried a waste of time. To match my excellent Sony XA5400ES I now have the matching receiver Sony STR-DA5400ES UK version includes H.A.T.S. However this is third time lucky so far, as the two previous receivers were unreliable and had to be returned for refunds. Despite absolutely no customer support from Sony I persisted because I was interested in both H.A.T.S. & Digital Legato Link which really works, old discarded CD's now sound so much better that they are enjoyable to listen to. The auto set up system on the Sony is useful in that it displays the individual speaker settings in dBs and it is then easy to adjust to ones preference . The sound quality from the matching Sony combination bi-wired & bi-amped is excellent. Has anyone else tried the combination in the U.S. you will neeed the DA 6400ES.

Glad you are enjoying your Sony combo. Unlike you, I am a complete believer in auto setup, including sophisticated room EQ, which Sony apparently lacks. I have gotten the finest sound I have ever heard from Mch. Auto setup (Integra DTC 9.8) was part of this. Auto setup is not as auto as some may think, though. It requires some basic understanding, and as I have become more educated, my Mch sound has progressively improved.

For Audyssey EQ, this education came from the excellent Official Audyssey site at AVS forum. From it, I learned to use a tripod for the mike and to use as many mike positions as I could, reasonably. I also learned to get my subwoofer levels within reasonable range prior to calibration.

Eventually, I upgraded to Audyssey Pro, which allowed even finer tweaking of the result. It allows a great deal more control than the stock Audyssey calibration package in my AVP, but I use very little of those advanced facilities. I would up with 11 mike positions across my 3 seat sofa listening area. I have not "centrally weighted" the calibrations by repeating certain mike positions, as some have suggested. I prefer a good average across the 3 listening positions, because I sometimes change seats, lean forward, sloch down, etc. Aside from what the mike and Audyssey determined, there are a only few tweaks I have made. I removed the midrange "dip", which I believe now optimizes music listening. I also fiddled with bass crossover frequencies, but eventually settled on 80 hz, except for my center channel, which required 100 hz.

While Audyssey Pro added somewhat more refinement to the result, the difference in going from zero to stock Multeq XT is huge compared to the added difference in going from there to Auyssey Pro.

We can debate the merits of Hats or other proprietary transmission schemes, like Denon's ad infinitum. My hunch is that this might affect CD playback more that hi rez media or Mch media. But, what are your thoughts as to SACD sound in HATs vs. HDMI, which is what I use?

Excluding AudysseyEQ, I also believe that speaker distance and channel level compensation are done far more accurately (and conveniently) via auto setup. I would consider it a serious step backwards to try doing these the old fashioned way with tape measure and meter, or even worse, by ear.

Post by mx2005 August 9, 2009 (34 of 116)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Excluding AudysseyEQ, I also believe that speaker distance and channel level compensation are done far more accurately (and conveniently) via auto setup. I would consider it a serious step backwards to try doing these the old fashioned way with tape measure and meter, or even worse, by ear.

You've probably got a good point there....I know what a pain it is doing adjustments by ear...

Post by Disbeliever August 10, 2009 (35 of 116)
Auto setup each to his own, I prefer to do it manually. However the Sony GUI displays the levels so makes it easy. As for MCH SACD & Stereo it is definately better with low jitter H.A.T.S. enabled on the receiver and via HDMI, analogue cables are now redundant as far as I am concerned. I note that Pioneer& Onkyo are now catching up to Sony and using a low jitter Burr-Brown DAC in their 209/10 models but they lack D.L.L. I do not use a sub-woofer as I have large floor standing transmission line speakers and I am not convinced that a centre channel speaker is necessary despite the hype that a centre channel speaker is the most important speaker in a surround sound system put out by some speaker makers KEF especially as I am more into music rather than Movies.

Post by Bobpaule August 15, 2014 (36 of 116)
Uncompressed music lovers beware:

From Secrets of HT and HF:

"Here's the test that was the most surprising of all. When Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is enabled, the AV8801 downsamples the input signal to 24 bit, 48 kHz which results in all information beyond that frequency being discarded. This behavior is not specific to the AV8801, but to all current Audyssey receivers and processors. The issue is not related to the Audyssey algorithms themselves, but rather a limitation of the DSP chipsets used in current products like the AV8801."

An affirmation of my earlier suspicions, last 3 processors in my system without Audyssey or EQ, the AV8801 will be no exception.

Post by Chris from Lafayette August 15, 2014 (37 of 116)
Bobpaule said:

Uncompressed music lovers beware:

From Secrets of HT and HF:

"Here's the test that was the most surprising of all. When Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is enabled, the AV8801 downsamples the input signal to 24 bit, 48 kHz which results in all information beyond that frequency being discarded. . .

That's why folks are excited about Dirac Live and similar products. I'm sure Audyssey will evolve beyond their 48 KHz sampling frequency limit for their correction systems too.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 August 15, 2014 (38 of 116)
Chris from Lafayette said:

That's why folks are excited about Dirac Live and similar products. I'm sure Audyssey will evolve beyond their 48 KHz sampling frequency limit for their correction systems too.

Chris - I have been completely sold on room EQ for close to 7 years using Audyssey. The news of the downrezzing to 48k came out in the past year or so. Incidentally, it is not Audyssey that is to blame. It is the AVR/prepro manufacturers who had elected not to configure sufficient DSP resources to be able to run Audyssey at a higher sampling rate, which it can do. The real ugly sin was not telling the consumer. Again, that was the AV processor makers. I am sure that Audysssey could not blow the whistle on it due to their licensing relationships with Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, etc.

In spite of all that, flipping Audyssey off in my system is just second rate sonically. It is not close. I have got to keep it on for best sound most emphatically. I also hear no great comparative sonic upside in friend's systems using Anthem D2Vs, which will perform EQ at up to 96k. Some of them think my system sounds at least as good as theirs, though there are other differences in speakers, amps, etc.

But, as I move more and more into computer audio, the feasibility of using Dirac Live becomes possible. I intend to evaluate it in my system in the next few months into an ExaSound e28 DAC via asynchronous USB. A friend with a Marantz 8801 also intends to evaluate it through that prepro from a PC via HDMI bypassing Audyssey and the 48k limit. Dirac Live has impressive new technical features and details and might now be a better mousetrap than Audyssey, which is getting a little old in technological years. And, 88/96k will be possible with Dirac, with 176/192k promised for future release.

So, once again PC audio makes possible interesting and potentially better sound fairly inexpensively, and it challenges the established audio makers to improve or lose out. We shall see.

Post by Kal Rubinson August 15, 2014 (39 of 116)
Fitzcaraldo215 said:
A friend with a Marantz 8801 also intends to evaluate it through that prepro from a PC via HDMI bypassing Audyssey and the 48k limit.

I have been running DiracLive 24/96 on a MacMini with HDMI output to the Marantz AV8801 set on Direct. Excellent!

Post by Chris from Lafayette August 15, 2014 (40 of 116)
Kal Rubinson said:

I have been running DiracLive 24/96 on a MacMini with HDMI output to the Marantz AV8801 set on Direct. Excellent!

Kal - I've still got some confusion. Is Dirac Live self sufficient for playback on a Mac Mini, or does one use it in conjunction with Audirvana, iTunes, or something?

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