Thread: How many of you are - actually - SACD-ONLY buyers???

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Post by trntbl January 28, 2009 (191 of 321)
bissie said:

I appreciate that last statement, but, as I have explained, it is not an option in our case.
To the start of your post: if we have a choice of either continue with SACD and go under or going on making superb recordings but only releasing them as CD, I don't have a problem choosing. After all, we are a MUSIC company, using technology and superb engineering to enhance the music.

My problem is that we're paying through the nose for the pleasure of subsidising a format that doesn't pay its own way. We do it, because we're proud of our results, we do it to serve the real connoisseurs of sound experience (that's you on this Forum, folks), and we do it to best serve the music and the artists.
BUT also we have to pay the productions, the extra editing, the mixing, the salaries etc etc, and this is becoming much more difficult along with worsening times and dwindling SACD buyers.

Facts. Real and hard facts.

I am a very stubborn person, and we'll try to keep it up, at least with key releases, but this thread has indeed proved to me that the number of extra sales because of the SACD option is far below what's financially required. So, for the time being, we're doing it as a good-will gesture for the reasons above. How long we can go on depends upon you buyers.

Best - Robert

PS. Sorry about your decision. You're missing out on some rather fantastic music-making there, especially the Villa-Lobos.

Robert, I appreciate your goodwill. BTW, how many replies did you expect in this thread? I thouhgt there were surprisingly large number of us supporting you by buying your SACDs.

I quess one would have to be completely blind to not see dwindling number of SACD releases in coming years as major labels have one by one dropped it. More alarming is that there is no viable format to give us more music recorded in multichannel. Any physical format, such as BluRay, is out of the question because of the production costs. I quess mch-downloads could be possible, but playback hardware seems to not exist. Not that I would be eager to adopt another format.

kristian

Post by aoqd22 January 28, 2009 (192 of 321)
Lets take a simple senario....

We have a Joseph Haydn anniversary coming up this year. I am looking for a recording of his piano concertos (and a few other Haydn discs). There is a highly respected BIS recording of his piano concertos played by the under rated Ronald Brautigam (BIS-CD-1318). It is not SACD. BIS may issue an alternative SACD disc of the concertos during this year but I think that would be out of character as they have a perfectly good RBCD version already! So what do I do? One option would be not to buy any recording in any format of the concertos. Other options would include buying a version on SACD issued by another label or buying or downloading the BIS RBCD version.

I will of course place an order for the BIS RBCD and sit back and enjoy the music!

Post by bissie January 28, 2009 (193 of 321)
aoqd22 said:

Lets take a simple senario....

We have a Joseph Haydn anniversary coming up this year. I am looking for a recording of his piano concertos (and a few other Haydn discs). There is a highly respected BIS recording of his piano concertos played by the under rated Ronald Brautigam (BIS-CD-1318). It is not SACD. BIS may issue an alternative SACD disc of the concertos during this year but I think that would be out of character as they have a perfectly good RBCD version already! So what do I do? One option would be not to buy any recording in any format of the concertos. Other options would include buying a version on SACD issued by another label or buying or downloading the BIS RBCD version.

I will of course place an order for the BIS RBCD and sit back and enjoy the music!

Thank you. My reasoning and hopes exactly.

But do let me whet your appetite with the first of 4 Haydn releases this year in SACD format (plus another more than a dozen Haydn CD:s in RBCD format): the Opera "Acide", just in through the door, BIS-SACD-1812 (sorry, zeus, this is advertising).

Best - Robert

Post by trntbl January 28, 2009 (194 of 321)
aoqd22 said:

Lets take a simple senario....

We have a Joseph Haydn anniversary coming up this year. I am looking for a recording of his piano concertos (and a few other Haydn discs). There is a highly respected BIS recording of his piano concertos played by the under rated Ronald Brautigam (BIS-CD-1318). It is not SACD. BIS may issue an alternative SACD disc of the concertos during this year but I think that would be out of character as they have a perfectly good RBCD version already! So what do I do? One option would be not to buy any recording in any format of the concertos. Other options would include buying a version on SACD issued by another label or buying or downloading the BIS RBCD version.

I will of course place an order for the BIS RBCD and sit back and enjoy the music!

In my case options would be: a) buy a new SACD version of that work, or b) grab one of 3 RBCD or 2 LP versions I already have and listen to it. It's not too difficult to calculate how much money goes into pocket of record company in each of these scenarios.

kristian

Post by Arthur January 28, 2009 (195 of 321)
bissie said:

My problem is that we're paying through the nose for the pleasure of subsidising a format that doesn't pay its own way. We do it, because we're proud of our results, we do it to serve the real connoisseurs of sound experience (that's you on this Forum, folks), and we do it to best serve the music and the artists.
BUT also we have to pay the productions, the extra editing, the mixing, the salaries etc etc, and this is becoming much more difficult along with worsening times and dwindling SACD buyers.

Robert:

This is not the first time you've referred to "dwindling SACD buyers" (if not in those exact words). Is it not the CD buyers that are dwindling? Or are your redbook discs maintaining their sales levels while your hybrids are dropping? Or are they dropping equally? It would seem that these numbers would tell you what you asked from us. (And I'm guessing you already know the answer.)

Thanks,
Bret

Post by bissie January 28, 2009 (196 of 321)
Arthur said:

Robert:

This is not the first time you've referred to "dwindling SACD buyers" (if not in those exact words). Is it not the CD buyers that are dwindling? Or are your redbook discs maintaining their sales levels while your hybrids are dropping? Or are they dropping equally? It would seem that these numbers would tell you what you asked from us. (And I'm guessing you already know the answer.)

Thanks,
Bret

Dear Bret,

you are absolutely right and I stand corrected.

What I should have written (but it gets so long every time) is "dwindling SACD-only buyers", because the facts are that I really cannot see any noticeable difference in sales between RBCD:s and Hybrid SACD:s, if you take into account what repertoire and artists there are on them.
Of course we sell infinitely more of Vänskä/van Beethoven in Minnesota on SACD than we do of Valen on RBCD, but the contrary isn't true - we do NOT sell esoteric SACD:s (like Pulkkis) at all, whereas Sibelius on RBCD are going away faster than we can press them. Aho sells basically equally well, whether on SACD or not. Same with the BCJ. This seems to me to show that, after all, repertoire/artists is the main thing with sound a definitive second.

What I wanted to find out was simply what economic justification there is to continue releasing SACD:s, and, yes, I have indeed found the answer: none.

Why we'll hold out anyway for the time being I have already given the reasons for. Money is important, but not everything. Quality is. The massive support from this Forum for BIS plays a big part in future decisions.

Best - Robert

Post by Jassman January 28, 2009 (197 of 321)
bissie said:

Dear Bret,

you are absolutely right and I stand corrected.

What I should have written (but it gets so long every time) is "dwindling SACD-only buyers", because the facts are that I really cannot see any noticeable difference in sales between RBCD:s and Hybrid SACD:s, if you take into account what repertoire and artists there are on them.
Of course we sell infinitely more of Vänskä/van Beethoven in Minnesota on SACD than we do of Valen on RBCD, but the contrary isn't true - we do NOT sell esoteric SACD:s (like Pulkkis) at all, whereas Sibelius on RBCD are going away faster than we can press them. Aho sells basically equally well, whether on SACD or not. Same with the BCJ. This seems to me to show that, after all, repertoire/artists is the main thing with sound a definitive second.

What I wanted to find out was simply what economic justification there is to continue releasing SACD:s, and, yes, I have indeed found the answer: none.

Why we'll hold out anyway for the time being I have already given the reasons for. Money is important, but not everything. Quality is. The massive support from this Forum for BIS plays a big part in future decisions.

Best - Robert

I suck up every sacd I can get from artists that make music that I like !! I prefer a well recorded sacd over any thing else, but Ive found some badly recorded sacd's, and Ive also found a few companies that don't make sacd's but their music is recorded really well and those companies I'm loyal to and purchase lots of music from those companies !! So I guess I'm saying that if the quality of your recordings stay high I would buy them in some cases even if their not sacd's.

Post by Cherubino January 28, 2009 (198 of 321)
bissie said:

Dear Bret,

you are absolutely right and I stand corrected.

What I should have written (but it gets so long every time) is "dwindling SACD-only buyers", because the facts are that I really cannot see any noticeable difference in sales between RBCD:s and Hybrid SACD:s, if you take into account what repertoire and artists there are on them.
Of course we sell infinitely more of Vänskä/van Beethoven in Minnesota on SACD than we do of Valen on RBCD, but the contrary isn't true - we do NOT sell esoteric SACD:s (like Pulkkis) at all, whereas Sibelius on RBCD are going away faster than we can press them. Aho sells basically equally well, whether on SACD or not. Same with the BCJ. This seems to me to show that, after all, repertoire/artists is the main thing with sound a definitive second.

What I wanted to find out was simply what economic justification there is to continue releasing SACD:s, and, yes, I have indeed found the answer: none.

Why we'll hold out anyway for the time being I have already given the reasons for. Money is important, but not everything. Quality is. The massive support from this Forum for BIS plays a big part in future decisions.

Best - Robert

Putting art over commerce at a time when commerce is becoming more and more difficult to sustain, is commendable. I recently ordered Handel: Concerti Grossi Op. 6 - Arte dei Suonatori, and look forward to many more purchases from BIS. A box set of the Vanska Beethoven symphonies would be a wonderful thing, so do let us know when you reach a final decision about it. Also, please consider some of your splendid back catalog for SACD release. I have many of those releases and would replace them ALL if available as SACD. Many thanks, good luck, and be well.

Post by Arthur January 28, 2009 (199 of 321)
bissie said:

Dear Bret,

you are absolutely right and I stand corrected.

What I should have written (but it gets so long every time) is "dwindling SACD-only buyers", because the facts are that I really cannot see any noticeable difference in sales between RBCD:s and Hybrid SACD:s, if you take into account what repertoire and artists there are on them.
Of course we sell infinitely more of Vänskä/van Beethoven in Minnesota on SACD than we do of Valen on RBCD, but the contrary isn't true - we do NOT sell esoteric SACD:s (like Pulkkis) at all, whereas Sibelius on RBCD are going away faster than we can press them. Aho sells basically equally well, whether on SACD or not. Same with the BCJ. This seems to me to show that, after all, repertoire/artists is the main thing with sound a definitive second.

What I wanted to find out was simply what economic justification there is to continue releasing SACD:s, and, yes, I have indeed found the answer: none.

Why we'll hold out anyway for the time being I have already given the reasons for. Money is important, but not everything. Quality is. The massive support from this Forum for BIS plays a big part in future decisions.

Best - Robert

Robert:

And for that I thank you!

By the way, when I looked up my collection I was surprised at how few (relatively speaking) of your discs I actually own. They make my wishlist, but something just a little sexier always seems to come along. To register my support in a more tangible way, therefore, (since the start of this thread) I have purchased the 4 Brautigam Beethoven volumes (volume 6 is incredible!) I hadn't gotten around to buying, the 2 Dausgaard Schumann volumes, another Ruud Grieg disc the latest Jarvi Tchaikovsky (to bring my cycle up to date).

I could have added twice that, but alas, like so many others I am financially challenged by the crisis going on.

Keep up the fight!

Bret

Post by bissie January 28, 2009 (200 of 321)
Arthur said:

Robert:

And for that I thank you!

By the way, when I looked up my collection I was surprised at how few (relatively speaking) of your discs I actually own. They make my wishlist, but something just a little sexier always seems to come along. To register my support in a more tangible way, therefore, (since the start of this thread) I have purchased the 4 Brautigam Beethoven volumes (volume 6 is incredible!) I hadn't gotten around to buying, the 2 Dausgaard Schumann volumes, another Ruud Grieg disc the latest Jarvi Tchaikovsky (to bring my cycle up to date).

I could have added twice that, but alas, like so many others I am financially challenged by the crisis going on.

Keep up the fight!

Bret

Sexier than BIS????!?

Man, oh man, you kick where it really hurts!!

Best - Robert

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