Post by stvnharr December 27, 2008 (21 of 92)
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rammiepie said:
SONY COULD be instrumental in this department. PETITION, ANYONE??????
Rammie,
Pierre Spey is an interesting person, as I've read some of his interviews. Long ago he expressed a non interest in sacd as he didn't think people needed to buy another player to play discs. His recordings are first rate, and indistiguishable from sacd's on a good rbcd player. If he is now going to make a cd player, you can bet that it will be as good as he advertises it to be.
Guido Tent, a Philips engineer in Netherlands who has a side business in diy parts and cd player upgrades, has recently come out with a cd player that has all of Guido's player upgrades designed into it, and more. It's advertised as better than most sacd players, and likely is, as all digital playback issues are addressed in the design of the player. It's more for the diy hobbyist as you have to assemble the player yourself from premade modules. It's cost is about half of Pierre's player.
Online petitions are a complete waste of time!!!!!!!!
Although they do make the petitioners feel good about themselves.
Do you know of one that actually accomplished anything, let alone the intended goal?
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It's amusing how all you fan(atics) who will forgo listening to composers such as Reinecke or Rontgen (just as an example) because they are only released as a CD think that those composers (as well as others) will someday be released in SACD or hi-rez primarily because you believe that you will live that long. Life is fleeting. I buy music that I love today because I want to enjoy it today, not based on some ridiculous notion that someday it will all be hi-rez and I will wait until then to purchase it. I, for one, want to enjoy not only Beethoven and Tchaikovsky (many recordings of which are in hi-rez) but also previously said composers. I and others won't wait for them to be hi-rez because it is the music that counts, not some idiotic notion that I have to get them in hi-rez or nothing at all.
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We must fight for SACD, how one spend your money on music is a personal issue. I think a petition to SONY is a good manner to express interest in SACD format to his creator.
We should let clear to SONY we do not wish another new silly format ( a PCM music BluRay or Download ).
I think a petition is a very good manner to make clear to SONY we want SACD rule the market, not a LOW or HI REZ PCM format. All PCM formats ( even DXD ) are inferior to DSD, if DSD 2.8Mhz is obsoleted
for a PCM HiRez we must claim a new DSD with Higher sampling rate. DSD is always superior to PCM. I want the best for my money. Quality pay it self.
What SONY made for SACD was too little to SACD take the market.
Strange how SONY can made Toshiba kill HD-DVD, but can not remove her own RedBook CD format from the hi profitable world market to favour SACD...
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Post by DSD December 28, 2008 (24 of 92)
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flyingdutchman said:
It's amusing how all you fan(atics) who will forgo listening to composers such as Reinecke or Rontgen (just as an example) because they are only released as a CD think that those composers (as well as others) will someday be released in SACD or hi-rez primarily because you believe that you will live that long. Life is fleeting. I buy music that I love today because I want to enjoy it today, not based on some ridiculous notion that someday it will all be hi-rez and I will wait until then to purchase it. I, for one, want to enjoy not only Beethoven and Tchaikovsky (many recordings of which are in hi-rez) but also previously said composers. I and others won't wait for them to be hi-rez because it is the music that counts, not some idiotic notion that I have to get them in hi-rez or nothing at all.
All fine and good but many of us cannot enjoy music on low resolution CDs as to our ears it is extremely uncomfortable and is more like anti-sound and anti-music. If a composer doesn't release their works on SACD or LP I will never get to hear them. There are plenty of composers unknown or little know on SACD to keep me broke for decades.
Do you mean Carl Reinecke? His Three Fantasy Pieces Op. 43 is on SACD:
Fantasiestücke - Ilya Hoffman, Sergey Koudriakov
My god man do you know how many unknown composers have SACDs out? Here are just some of the little known or unknown composers I have on SACD:
AAGAARD-NILSEN, TORSTEIN (1964-
AMDAHL, MAGNE (1942-
ANTILL, JOHN (1904-1986)
ARNAUD, LEO (1904-1991)
AVISON, CHARLES (1709-1770)
BEINTUS, JEAN-PASCAL (1966-
BULL, OLE (1810-1880)
CHADWICK, GEORGE (1854-1931)
CHARPENTIER, GUSTAVE (1860–1956)
DAUGHERTY, MICHAEL (1954-
DAVIES, SIR PETER MAXWELL (1934-
GANDOLFI, MICHAEL (1956-
GARCIA, JOSE PABLO MONCAYO (1912-1958)
GILLIS, DON (1912-1978)
GOMES, ANTONIO CARLOS (1836-1896)
GOTTSCHALK, LOUIS (1829-1869)
GOULD, MORTON (1913-1996)
HALVORSEN, JOHAN (1864-1935)
HANSSEN, JOHANNES (1874-1967)
HARRIS, ROY (1898-1979)
HIGDON, JENNIFER (1962-
HÖGBERG, FREDRIK (1971-
HOVLAND, EGIL (1924-
LIADOV, ANATOLE (1855-1914)
LINDBERG, CHRISTIAN (1958-
LLOYD, GEORGE (1913-1998)
MacMILLAN, JAMES (1959-
MARTINŮ, BOHUSLAV (1890-1959)
MASSENET, JULES (1842-1912)
MATTHEWS, COLIN (1946-
McPHEE, COLIN (1900-1964)
MEIJ, JOHAN DE (1953-
MINKUS, LEON (1826-1917)
NELSON, RON (1929-
PETIT, PIERRE (1922-2000)
PLAGGE, WOLFGANG (1960-
POPOV, GAVRIIL (1904-1972)
PUGNI, CESARE (1802-1870)
RASMUSSEN, SUNLEIF (1961-
RAUTAVAARA, EINOJUHANI (1928-
ROUSSEL, ALBERT (1869-1973)
RUSSO, WILLIAM (1928-2003)
SÆVERUD, HARALD (1897-1992)
SCHUMAN, WILLIAM (1910-1992)
SCHNITTKE, ALFRED (1934-1998)
SHILKRET, NATHANIEL (1889-1992)
SVENDSEN, JOHAN (1840-1911)
TAVENER, JOHN (1944-
THEOFANIDIS, CHRISTOPHER (1967-
THOMSON, VIRGIL (1896-1989)
TURNAGE, MARK-ANTHONY (1960-
TVEITT, GEIRR (1908-1981)
WEILL KURT (1900-1950)
WEINBERGER, JAROMIR (1844-1937)
ZABEL, FRANK (1968-
Plus there are about 50 more unknown or little know composers on my SACD want list.
Your pro-CD diatribe does not hold water! EVERY CD YOU BUY PUTS ANOTHER NAIL IN SACDs COFFIN!
I value my time and I will not waste it listening to music that sounds like total and complete crap. CDs are NOT music to my ears!
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Post by DSD December 28, 2008 (25 of 92)
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FullRangeMan said:
We must fight for SACD, how one spend your money on music is a personal issue. I think a petition to SONY is a good manner to express interest in SACD format to his creator.
We should let clear to SONY we do not wish another new silly format ( a PCM music BluRay or Download ).
I think a petition is a very good manner to make clear to SONY we want SACD rule the market, not a LOW or HI REZ PCM format. All PCM formats ( even DXD ) are inferior to DSD, if DSD 2.8Mhz is obsoleted
for a PCM HiRez we must claim a new DSD with Higher sampling rate. DSD is always superior to PCM. I want the best for my money. Quality pay it self.
What SONY made for SACD was too little to SACD take the market.
Strange how SONY can made Toshiba kill HD-DVD, but can not remove her own RedBook CD format from the hi profitable world market to favour SACD...
Right On! I agree 100%!
Sony does have some explaining to do. I watched the Information kiosks explain both HDTV and then BluRay. Not only did WalMart have kiosks that explained the formats but there were Videos as well playing in the store and every single WalMart associate could answer your questions on HDTV and BluRay. Sony NEVER did this for SACD. Indeed the only kiosks I even seen was way in the back of Circuit City. All WalMart ever had was the Rolling Stones and Pink Floyd SACDs, but ask any associate at WalMart what SACD is even 10 years after the introduction and they are likely to give you a blank stare, a very few may know it's something about surround sound. But I never found a single associate that knew it was high resolution. Sony let us down big time on promoting SACD!
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rammiepie said:
I brought up this very topic last week (a petition to SONY) but one poster cautioned that with the collapsing economy, SONY is NOT interested in this niche format anymore. Since it seems that SA-CD net has over 25,000 interested parties that we could somehow ban together and present "something" to SONY but only Zeus could get the ball rolling as to WHO at SONY would even listen. Food for thought for 2009!
The economy is in crisis, but it will only make CDs death quicker, because it's mass consumer product, and mass consumer will now be even less interested in them than he was in 2007 when CD sales dropped 20% (without any economic crisis), so in 2009 another CD stores will get closed and "CD space" in markets will be reduced...
BUT at the same time vinyl record sales are raising, because there are people who love music no matter the crisis and they know that 16/44,1kHz CD was never enough, so we can ask ourselves, like Michael Fremer said on the panel - is it digital problem? No, "it's just low resolution problem" so here's a chance for hi-rez SACD and maybe even hi-rez DSD studio master files! Sony has huge catalog of great recordings in its many labels, just imagine all of Sony's master tapes transferred to DSD studio master files ready for download from online stores! And tell me what company didn't want to add DSD support in their software programs, it's all about the content if Sony can bring all their master tapes to DSD files...they just can't go wrong!
I agree with you and stvnharr, who's saying that making an on-line petition about the need for hi-rez SACD recordings may be not enough, and it would be better if someone talked to Sony directly, or at least passed our petition in the right hands at Sony.
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audioholik said:
Please take a look at the very recent discussion between sound engineers, music lovers and audiophiles on sound quality.
Deep Listening: Why Audio Quality Matters (December 06, 2008)
Participants: Steve Berkowitz (Sony), Greg Calbi (moderator), Evan Cornog, Michael Fremer (Stereophile), Kevin Killen, Craig Street
http://philoctetes.org/Past_Programs/Deep_Listening_Why_Audio_Quality_Matters
A very interesting listen, indeed.
A few comments in that discussion I would like to point out.
It was said, "who has the time to sit and listen?"
That comment says it all. In our society the music consumer is too busy, too distracted and is compelled to multi-task even during leisure. I'll use my own household as a model case. Here I sit typing this on a lap-top PC located on the kitchen counter while I watch the Weather Channel (muted) on a small LCD TV next to me, while I carry-on tidbits of a conversation with my wife about what's for dinner after she just finished hanging-up the telephone. Meanwhile, in the background in another room a SACD plays. Deep listening? For me it is a precious hour I can carve out before I sleep.
About the younger demographic. Those that supposedly are the target of the music business. They are mobile and also multi-tasking their leisure. And so must be their music. Enter MP3 players, Ipods and laptop PC audio, portable XM/Sirius satelitte radio, terrestrial HD Radio. Although I agree with the comment made in the forum that the younger generation has been "conditioned" to listen to Lo-Rez. I don't blame the Capitalist business model. I blame our society! The business is simply catering to the mobile, multi-tasking marketplace. Demand drives the marketplace not the other way around. It is no wonder to me in this society that rbCD sales are rapidly declining.
Perhaps this deep economic recession will cause us all to appreciate life, take pause and deep listen to a "New" SACD.
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DSD said:
All fine and good but many of us cannot enjoy music on low resolution CDs as to our ears it is extremely uncomfortable and is more like anti-sound and anti-music. If a composer doesn't release their works on SACD or LP I will never get to hear them. There are plenty of composers unknown or little know on SACD to keep me broke for decades.
Do you mean Carl Reinecke? His Three Fantasy Pieces Op. 43 is on SACD:
Fantasiestücke - Ilya Hoffman, Sergey Koudriakov
My god man do you know how many unknown composers have SACDs out? Here are just some of the little known or unknown composers I have on SACD:
AAGAARD-NILSEN, TORSTEIN (1964-
AMDAHL, MAGNE (1942-
ANTILL, JOHN (1904-1986)
ARNAUD, LEO (1904-1991)
AVISON, CHARLES (1709-1770)
BEINTUS, JEAN-PASCAL (1966-
BULL, OLE (1810-1880)
CHADWICK, GEORGE (1854-1931)
CHARPENTIER, GUSTAVE (1860–1956)
DAUGHERTY, MICHAEL (1954-
DAVIES, SIR PETER MAXWELL (1934-
GANDOLFI, MICHAEL (1956-
GARCIA, JOSE PABLO MONCAYO (1912-1958)
GILLIS, DON (1912-1978)
GOMES, ANTONIO CARLOS (1836-1896)
GOTTSCHALK, LOUIS (1829-1869)
GOULD, MORTON (1913-1996)
HALVORSEN, JOHAN (1864-1935)
HANSSEN, JOHANNES (1874-1967)
HARRIS, ROY (1898-1979)
HIGDON, JENNIFER (1962-
HÖGBERG, FREDRIK (1971-
HOVLAND, EGIL (1924-
LIADOV, ANATOLE (1855-1914)
LINDBERG, CHRISTIAN (1958-
LLOYD, GEORGE (1913-1998)
MacMILLAN, JAMES (1959-
MARTINŮ, BOHUSLAV (1890-1959)
MASSENET, JULES (1842-1912)
MATTHEWS, COLIN (1946-
McPHEE, COLIN (1900-1964)
MEIJ, JOHAN DE (1953-
MINKUS, LEON (1826-1917)
NELSON, RON (1929-
PETIT, PIERRE (1922-2000)
PLAGGE, WOLFGANG (1960-
POPOV, GAVRIIL (1904-1972)
PUGNI, CESARE (1802-1870)
RASMUSSEN, SUNLEIF (1961-
RAUTAVAARA, EINOJUHANI (1928-
ROUSSEL, ALBERT (1869-1973)
RUSSO, WILLIAM (1928-2003)
SÆVERUD, HARALD (1897-1992)
SCHUMAN, WILLIAM (1910-1992)
SCHNITTKE, ALFRED (1934-1998)
SHILKRET, NATHANIEL (1889-1992)
SVENDSEN, JOHAN (1840-1911)
TAVENER, JOHN (1944-
THEOFANIDIS, CHRISTOPHER (1967-
THOMSON, VIRGIL (1896-1989)
TURNAGE, MARK-ANTHONY (1960-
TVEITT, GEIRR (1908-1981)
WEILL KURT (1900-1950)
WEINBERGER, JAROMIR (1844-1937)
ZABEL, FRANK (1968-
Plus there are about 50 more unknown or little know composers on my SACD want list.
Your pro-CD diatribe does not hold water! EVERY CD YOU BUY PUTS ANOTHER NAIL IN SACDs COFFIN!
I value my time and I will not waste it listening to music that sounds like total and complete crap. CDs are NOT music to my ears!
The "many of us" who find it uncomfortable are only a few (such as you and a few others such as your parrot Hiro). The multitude of others find it perfectly acceptable (as has been shown in the billions of CDs sold). SACD is certainly better, but use common sense and fact, not idiotic self-delusions. There are great CDs out (such as put out by Ondine, BIS, Chandos, Hyperion, and NAXOS). The cds of the 80s are not the cds of today; neither are the players that play them.
Actually as stupid as your posts are, there is one thing that comes close to being correct and that is there is one thing that is putting the nail in SACDs coffin, BUT it isn't CD...it's called cheap and easy MP3 192kbs downloads. You want to go on a diatribe against CDs, then pick out the true enemy. The reason CD and SACD are dying (and CD is dying or don't you read, listen to the tv, or surf the internet?) isn't because of CDs being more and more popular; it's because cheap low-rez downloads are more and more popular. Evidence of this is in the closing down of numerous record stores--there's only one left in the Seattle area--Silver Platters--and that story is true everywhere around America. Only in Europe and Japan have I heard and seen CD (and SACD) stores still surviving. Even Bmgmusic.com is closing up shop (they no longer accept new members) because of the attack on CD from low-rez downloads.
Honestly, are you as out to lunch in person as you appear here and on Audioasylum? Your idiotic comments regarding cd and your already well-documented trashing and disposing of your SACD collection (twice!!!) and your players is known among most in these parts.
You mention Reinecke (albeit minor piano pieces that are combined with many other composers). Ok, where are his symphonies or his piano concertos--something more substantial than a small smattering of his production? Have you even heard or seen his symphonies or concertos on LP or SACD? I haven't.
You also mention other minor composers, which is all and good; however, there are numerous others that will not see the light of day in my lifetime or yours (you're in your late 50s, right?). The time is now and maybe even tomorrow. You might be dead tomorrow and you've thrown out a huge number of composers simply because they're on CD. That's simply ignorant, Teresa.
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Post by sgb December 28, 2008 (29 of 92)
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I watched the full 2+ hours of this sound quality traveling medicine show a few days ago, and came away thinking that snake oil salesmanship is alive and well.
All of this talk about folks being able to discern CD from SACD has amused me for years now. Sad to see that the insanity has migrated from the Asylum to Stephen's site.
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Post by Cherubino December 28, 2008 (30 of 92)
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sgb said:
I watched the full 2+ hours of this sound quality traveling medicine show a few days ago, and came away thinking that snake oil salesmanship is alive and well.
All of this talk about folks being able to discern CD from SACD has amused me for years now. Sad to see that the insanity has migrated from the Asylum to Stephen's site.
The audio field has always been fertile ground for all kinds of snake oil salesmen. The champions though are the cable manufacturers. They make Dr. Dulcamara look like an amateur.
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