Post by stvnharr July 30, 2008 (11 of 26)
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Well, FWIW, I think all you Blu Ray audio lovers are merely just dreamers. Blu Ray is the new DVD, not the new cd. And I don't see stacks of dvd players in the dumpster where I live, as people buy new blu ray players to replace the old fashion dvd player that they got last Christmas, or the Christmas before, or the one before that.
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Post by RWetmore July 30, 2008 (12 of 26)
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Claude said:
How so? Do Blu-ray discs play in all DVD players, or do you assume that Blu-ray players are already present in every home?
Audio-only Blu-ray discs, like the ones 2L is planning, are for audiophiles. Only audiophiles care about hi-rez sound. If you count all PS3 owners (the biggest Blu-ray hardware base) among potential buyers of these discs, you're not accepting the market reality.
???? The idea is that in the coming years Blu-ray will eventually become the next generation DVD with hundreds of millions of players in homes worldwide.
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Post by LivyII July 30, 2008 (13 of 26)
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zeus said:
This cargo cult thinking didn't work with DVD-A... Splintering high resolution delivery over a number of formats adds to production/distribution costs and could well diminish the market for such.
I think I would disagree with this in a way - Sony has demonstrated pretty convincing that bundling Blu-Ray compatibility with the PS3 was a great idea. The key to success was the creation of one player that could play everything. Rather than trying to market a new and different video disc format and player independently amidst the DVD world, they combined them both into one player and cross-sold Blu-Ray to consumers who purchased the PS3 for gaming.
I would argue that this is probably the single greatest reason Blu-Ray bested HD-DVD, inspite of the fact that HD-DVD was less expensive (price usually being the greatest purchasing decision factor by consumers).
If there is some down-the-road hi-rez audio format that becomes compatible with Blu-Ray players, consumers are poised to receive it because of the increasing pervasiveness of Blu-ray players throughout the market. Whoever said that not having to purchase different equipment in order to play such an audio format was a decisive advantage was right on the money.
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Post by LivyII July 30, 2008 (14 of 26)
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Claude said:
How so? Do Blu-ray discs play in all DVD players, or do you assume that Blu-ray players are already present in every home?
Audio-only Blu-ray discs, like the ones 2L is planning, are for audiophiles. Only audiophiles care about hi-rez sound. If you count all PS3 owners (the biggest Blu-ray hardware base) among potential buyers of these discs, you're not accepting the market reality.
Blu-Ray discs do not play in all CD players, as I understand it. But it's pretty clear from the Blu-Ray example that consumers purchased the PS3 for one reason, but became enamored and attracted to hi-rez video because it was available to them. They didn't care about enough about hi-rez, audiophile video to upgrade their current equipment. But once they got it for "free" with the purchase of a PS3, the incremental cost difference between a Blu-ray DVD and normal DVD was not prohibitive, which caused consumers to embrace the new format. Once that happened, Blu-ray took off. The same thing could happen with hi-rez audio.
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Post by Claude July 30, 2008 (15 of 26)
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LivyII said:
But once they got it for "free" with the purchase of a PS3, the incremental cost difference between a Blu-ray DVD and normal DVD was not prohibitive, which caused consumers to embrace the new format. Once that happened, Blu-ray took off. The same thing could happen with hi-rez audio.
I didn't work with SACD (supported by the PS3).
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Post by LivyII July 30, 2008 (16 of 26)
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Claude said:
I didn't work with SACD (supported by the PS3).
Relatively few consumers knew about SACD because Sony's (and other's) initial and subsequent batches of them:
1) were not mainstream rock and pop titles familiar to the great mass of consumers
2) were not compatible with RBCD players, thus requiring an equipment purchase, which most consumers were not going to do.
3) were half-heartedly marketed - reflected by 1) and 2) above and no buy-in from large consumer friendly stores.
Sony learned a lot of lessons, however, and applied them with Blu-Ray and the PS3. Mainstream, blockbuster movies + bundle the technology with equipment that consumers plan to purchase in large numbers anyway from consumer-frequented stores = successful campaign to replace currently acceptable format with new and better format. Consumers see the advantages and soon their demand is driving the market for Blu-Ray.
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Post by stvnharr July 30, 2008 (17 of 26)
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LivyII said:
Sony learned a lot of lessons, however, and applied them with Blu-Ray and the PS3. Mainstream, blockbuster movies + bundle the technology with equipment that consumers plan to purchase in large numbers anyway from consumer-frequented stores = successful campaign to replace currently acceptable format with new and better format. Consumers see the advantages and soon their demand is driving the market for Blu-Ray.
How many people buy Blu-Ray and PS3 players to listen to music, of any kind?
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With Sony/BMG's vast music library, it would be to their benefit to release multi-channel blu-ray/cd's (with an accompanying stereo mix). From reading most of the audio mags, I think that Blu-Ray is still struggling to replace good ole fashioned up-sampled DVDs and the players and receivers are still in their infancy. To sell any quantity, there MUST be a blitz of popular titles (Pink Floyd, Santana, etc.) but the important thing to consider is that the paucity of SACD titles on both labels is disgraceful, at best. 24/192 (especially as evidenced by the Meridian 861 and 808) can sound exquisite but so far, none of the blu-ray players and pre-amps can access what it took years to master on SACD. We must all have an open mind and hope that this format will draw the masses away from their decrepit I-pods.......ANYTHING at this point would be an improvement over THAT!
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Post by azure July 31, 2008 (19 of 26)
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WISHFUL THINKING :-D
If a "Profile 3" blu ray "audio only" specification eventuates, I hope it incorporates DSD and DXD files as well.
Also, it should allow one to control the operations without the need for a screen, like conventional CD and SA-CD players.
Like current DVD-A discs, the AC3 program is accessible to all DVD players, and the "Advanced Resolution" files can be read only by dedicated universal players; Future "Profile 3" discs should be playable on all BD players, although you would need a compliant player to access DSD and DXD programs.
Needless to say, If the above scenario eventuated, I'm sure manufacturers would produce high end- audio only "dedicated" compliant profile 3 players.
Also, Sony should do the right thing, and include backward compatibiulity with SACD if they release Profile 3 compliant players.
NOW CAN SOMEONE PINCH ME ;-)
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=56059
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Post by LivyII July 31, 2008 (20 of 26)
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stvnharr said:
How many people buy Blu-Ray and PS3 players to listen to music, of any kind?
1 year ago, how many people bought a PS3 to watch movies of any kind?
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