Post by Peter July 26, 2008 (11 of 32)
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The end of the world is nigh......... woe is me for I am undone.
Well, we'll see in 2010!
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Post by 51surr July 26, 2008 (12 of 32)
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Paul Clark said:
Since enjoying the quality on SACD's and comparing them to RBCD and even DVD-A, I find myself no longer motivated to listen to anything except what is on SACD's. The improvement to me is simply striking. To replace SACD with anything of lesser quality will find me quiting my music consumption. An inferior product would simply not be worth listening to at any price point.
I agree except that I also listen to DVD-A.
The only time I listen to RBCD is in the car. I listen mostly to pop and jazz therefore my music media expenses have decreased sharply which unfortunately is good in a way.
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Post by RWetmore July 26, 2008 (13 of 32)
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I think SACD will stay around as a niche product for quite a while longer.
IMO, Blu-ray audio only has a chance if the discs will play like SACDs with no video menus. I'd like to see them come out with format simply called Blu-ray CD or BD-CD with high resolution PCM (441Khz/24bit).
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Post by Goodwood July 28, 2008 (14 of 32)
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For me the future of disc based audio lies on the whole product - just like any product marketing exercise.
If the industry can deliver something genuinely exciting, that has more mass appeal, and if that requires a new format (and I consider the format to be secondary issue) then SACD will have to make way for something new.
New formats offer the scope for all kinds of content which may, especially combined with high resolution audio, appeal to a wider market, all without any sacrifice to the audio capabilities.
However not only did DVD-A ultimately lack the capacity to add content of any value (the real reason we resent having to turn the TV on to listen to music), but the user interface was at best inconsistent between discs and at worst unreliable so something should be learned from the DVD-A experience.
So I suggest Apple design the user interface for a new format - as only they seem to be able to take constituent parts and turn them into something that people have a strong desire for, and will abandon logic to spend money and buy. OK so this is far fetched but the iPhone reminds us that functionality alone does not set the pulse racing.
Ultimately though streaming of live high resolution audio of anything ever recorded would be the way to go. No environmentally unfriendly manufacturing, packaging and transport (from factory, from distributors, from dealers)and dynamic web based content - and no storage requirements at home. All of this means less risk and investment for the record companies.
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Goodwood said:
For me the future of disc based audio lies on the whole product - just like any product marketing exercise.
If the industry can deliver something genuinely exciting, that has more mass appeal, and if that requires a new format (and I consider the format to be secondary issue) then SACD will have to make way for something new.
New formats offer the scope for all kinds of content which may, especially combined with high resolution audio, appeal to a wider market, all without any sacrifice to the audio capabilities.
However not only did DVD-A ultimately lack the capacity to add content of any value (the real reason we resent having to turn the TV on to listen to music), but the user interface was at best inconsistent between discs and at worst unreliable so something should be learned from the DVD-A experience.
So I suggest Apple design the user interface for a new format - as only they seem to be able to take constituent parts and turn them into something that people have a strong desire for, and will abandon logic to spend money and buy. OK so this is far fetched but the iPhone reminds us that functionality alone does not set the pulse racing.
Ultimately though streaming of live high resolution audio of anything ever recorded would be the way to go. No environmentally unfriendly manufacturing, packaging and transport (from factory, from distributors, from dealers)and dynamic web based content - and no storage requirements at home. All of this means less risk and investment for the record companies.
What would it mean to the consumer? What kind of hardware and software support is necessary, entailing what kind of outlay? With Polyhymnia recorded surround SACDs (PentaTone, some RCA/BMG, Caro Mitis and a few others),I get a quality of sound previously unimaginable, and which I can hardly imagine can be improved on.
What is the draw for streaming? What would I get out of it? and how much would I have to pay to equal the absolutely superb sound quality I have now?
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Post by dobyblue July 28, 2008 (16 of 32)
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DSD said:
Claude I agree with almost everything you said. An SACD Hybrid can be single inventory one disc for high resolution DSD and CD. The problem with Blu-ray is as good as 24 Bit 192kHz can be, and it can be quite good SACD is even better. And most Blu-ray discs will likely only be 96kHz or 48kHz not 192kHz PCM. And I know I am not the only one unwilling to take a "digital" step backwards.
High resolution downloads are available, take hours to download even with DSL and cost two to three times as much as a physical SACD. Downloads may replace CDs, but I think SACD is here to stay at least for another 10, perhaps 40 more years, minimum. They couldn't kill the LP, they only temporally killed Reel to Reel and they only "think" they killed cassette. And they will NOT KILL SACD!
Love live DSD, love live SACD!
Well I guess Neil Young disagrees with you because his first Blu-ray release will feature the first ten years of his work, remastered from analog tapes in its entirety to 24/192 PCM.
Also 24/192 PCM more closely resembles a performance than DSD. If DSD were 8-bit that would be a different story, but the listening tests I've seen showing a DSD and 24/192 PCM conversion of a performance recorded in DXD (32/384) suggest the 24/192 is more accurate.
Your assesment of most Blu-ray audio discs being presented in 24/48 is not based on any actual evidence at all - in fact the majority of recent concert Blu-ray disc offerings from SonyBMG have all been 24/96 multi-channel.
Within a year from now there will be more Blu-ray compatible devices on the market than SACD players.
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I believe the new Blue Note series will be a shot in the arm for the format. 25 classic jazz titles is a big deal. If they sell well, we could well see more interest in the format.
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dobyblue said:
Well I guess Neil Young disagrees with you because his first Blu-ray release will feature the first ten years of his work, remastered from analog tapes in its entirety to 24/192 PCM.
Also 24/192 PCM more closely resembles a performance than DSD. If DSD were 8-bit that would be a different story, but the listening tests I've seen showing a DSD and 24/192 PCM conversion of a performance recorded in DXD (32/384) suggest the 24/192 is more accurate.
Your assesment of most Blu-ray audio discs being presented in 24/48 is not based on any actual evidence at all - in fact the majority of recent concert Blu-ray disc offerings from SonyBMG have all been 24/96 multi-channel.
Within a year from now there will be more Blu-ray compatible devices on the market than SACD players.
I disagree. I find DSD sounds better based on the largely two track recordings I have been involved in. I have heard sessions where the tracks were done in hirez digital and analog tape and the analog tape > DSD transfer most closely sounds like the live sound at the event.
Hirez PCM can sound quite good, however, but there is something special with DSD imho.
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Post by DSD July 29, 2008 (19 of 32)
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Lee Scoggins said:
I disagree. I find DSD sounds better based on the largely two track recordings I have been involved in. I have heard sessions where the tracks were done in hirez digital and analog tape and the analog tape > DSD transfer most closely sounds like the live sound at the event.
Hirez PCM can sound quite good, however, but there is something special with DSD imho.
I agree DSD is very special indeed. I have many excellent sounding 24 Bit 192kHz DVD-Audio's but they don't quite equal the smoothness, sonic realism and musicality of a pure DSD SACD such as those from Telarc's Classical division, but 192kHz PCM does sound fantastic, it just ain't no DSD. Maybe 384kHz PCM might get closer to DSD?
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DSD said:
I agree DSD is very special indeed. I have many excellent sounding 24 Bit 192kHz DVD-Audio's but they don't quite equal the smoothness, sonic realism and musicality of a pure DSD SACD such as those from Telarc's Classical division, but 192kHz PCM does sound fantastic, it just ain't no DSD. Maybe 384kHz PCM might get closer to DSD?
I agree that 384 would probably be close.
I think some PCM intermediary stages on transfers use sampling around this rate. Perhaps a mastering engineer on the board has some thoughts.
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