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Discussion: Bruckner: Symphony No. 4 - Young

Posts: 8

Post by terence June 21, 2008 (1 of 8)
excuse my ignorance, but can any kind soul enlighten me re. exactly what "first version 1874" means here?

is it very different from e.g. RBCD recordings by Böhm, Jochum and Chailly that I have already?

Post by Peter June 21, 2008 (2 of 8)
terence said:

excuse my ignorance, but can any kind soul enlighten me re. exactly what "first version 1874" means here?

is it very different from e.g. RBCD recordings by Böhm, Jochum and Chailly that I have already?

http://www.geocities.com/dkgriegel/versions.html

should tell all. I, too, was quite confused by all the editions.

Peter

Post by fafnir June 21, 2008 (3 of 8)
terence said:

excuse my ignorance, but can any kind soul enlighten me re. exactly what "first version 1874" means here?

is it very different from e.g. RBCD recordings by Böhm, Jochum and Chailly that I have already?

Undoubtedly the most significant change is that the famous third movement (the so-called "Hunting Scherzo") is entirely different.

Post by Cicero June 21, 2008 (4 of 8)
terence said:

excuse my ignorance, but can any kind soul enlighten me re. exactly what "first version 1874" means here?

is it very different from e.g. RBCD recordings by Böhm, Jochum and Chailly that I have already?

You could also go to

http://www.abruckner.com/discography/symphonyno4ineflat/

and check the links there (e.g., "Dave's details").

Alas, unless you need an SACD recording, I found all of the RBCD's of the 1874 version known to me (a complete list at abruckner.com) preferable to Young's and her orchestra's efforts. Of course, I do not know all of them; yet much of what I wrote in the discussion thread on Young's recording of Bruckner 2 applies here as well. I am particularly fond of Gielen (Intercord or EMI, RBCD) but for once find the revised version(s) markedly superior to the 1874 version. From a random list of current favourites, I would judge Böhm (1886 version, available on SACD from Japan; I have it on RBCD), Celibidache (1881, EMI) and Sanderling (1881, Profil) superior to Young both sonically and in terms of interpretation.

Post by akiralx June 23, 2008 (5 of 8)
Cicero said:

Alas, unless you need an SACD recording, I found all of the RBCD's of the 1874 version known to me (a complete list at abruckner.com) preferable to Young's and her orchestra's efforts. Of course, I do not know all of them; yet much of what I wrote in the discussion thread on Young's recording of Bruckner 2 applies here as well. I am particularly fond of Gielen (Intercord or EMI, RBCD) but for once find the revised version(s) markedly superior to the 1874 version. From a random list of current favourites, I would judge Böhm (1886 version, available on SACD from Japan; I have it on RBCD), Celibidache (1881, EMI) and Sanderling (1881, Profil) superior to Young both sonically and in terms of interpretation.

I have the Japanese SACD of Boehm's famous VPO recording - sonically it is very slightly better than the Decca Legend CD but the difference is barely perceptible. Fabulous performance as you say of an imaginative but relatively orthodox interpretation. Wand's BPO CD is also very good.

I also agree that Celibidache's live CD is superb, idiosyncratic but probably the best of the EMI Celi releases, alongside the Bruckner 6.

Bruckner doesn't seem to have fared as well as Mahler on SACD - Harnoncourt's are probably the best, though I haven't heard any of van Zweden's SACDs - his Fourth got a very good review in Gramophone.

I have the Simone Young Second and quite like it, though again the early edition is just inferior to the later revisions in my view.

Post by Lochiel June 24, 2008 (6 of 8)
akiralx said:

I have the Japanese SACD of Boehm's famous VPO recording - sonically it is very slightly better than the Decca Legend CD but the difference is barely perceptible. Fabulous performance as you say of an imaginative but relatively orthodox interpretation. Wand's BPO CD is also very good.

I also agree that Celibidache's live CD is superb, idiosyncratic but probably the best of the EMI Celi releases, alongside the Bruckner 6.

Bruckner doesn't seem to have fared as well as Mahler on SACD - Harnoncourt's are probably the best, though I haven't heard any of van Zweden's SACDs - his Fourth got a very good review in Gramophone.

I have the Simone Young Second and quite like it, though again the early edition is just inferior to the later revisions in my view.

How does this performance compare to the Tintner 4th on Naxos?

Does anyone know whether Young is going to record the whole cycle or just 2-4 and 8?

I much prefer these ur-editions than the later revisions. I think that they demonstrate Bruckner as he was, not as his friends wanted him to be. The 4th symphony is a great example, perhaps the best, of how much his works were changed by others. This is not to say that the later revisions were bad, just that they do not necessarily represent solely Bruckner.

Thanks.

Post by fafnir June 24, 2008 (7 of 8)
Lochiel said:

How does this performance compare to the Tintner 4th on Naxos?

Does anyone know whether Young is going to record the whole cycle or just 2-4 and 8?

I much prefer these ur-editions than the later revisions. I think that they demonstrate Bruckner as he was, not as his friends wanted him to be. The 4th symphony is a great example, perhaps the best, of how much his works were changed by others. This is not to say that the later revisions were bad, just that they do not necessarily represent solely Bruckner.

Thanks.

According to the abruckner.com web site, Tintner's recorded the Fourth for Naxos in the 1881 Haas Edition. He made a separate recording of the 1881 "Volkfest" Finale, also on Naxos. The only Tintner Bruckner that I own is his recording of the original version of the Third, which I do not like at all - much too slow IMHO. I think Young's is much superior both in performance and certainly in sound.

I also would like to know if she is going to do a complete cycle. It would be most welcome. There is not much more information in the jacket notes.

Like you, I have come to prefer the ur-versions of Symphonies 2 and 3, although it took me a while to warm up to the original version of the third. On the other hand the original version of No. 2 made an immediate overwhelming impression. I think Young's performances thus far have been very fine, displaying a great feeling for the idiom.

Post by Polly Nomial June 24, 2008 (8 of 8)
fafnir said:

I also would like to know if she is going to do a complete cycle. It would be most welcome. There is not much more information in the jacket notes.

According to the Oehms catalogue for this year, it is a complete cycle following the original editions.

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