Thread: Askenazy's Sibelius Symphonies from Exton

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Post by Geohominid April 18, 2008 (1 of 20)
I have been spending some time preparing a review of the first disc in this 'new' cycle (Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3 - Ashkenazy), which together with Symphonies 4 & 5 has just been released in Europe. I noted from Daland's review from last year that he praised the Exton recording as one of the best he had heard, adding that the rear channels were given more prominence than usual (for this label?). This is absolutely contrary to my experience; in order to hear any of the surround speakers at all, I had to switch off the front channels and then turn up the volume. The centre channel is barely audible and consists of a muffled signal at the end of a very long tunnel; the rears carry a somewhat louder version of the same signal. It sounds like someone put a very cheap microphone in the foyer of the magnificent Stockholm Konserthus and tried to pick up the orchestra with the doors to the auditorium closed. In other words, the surround effect is virtually useless.

This raises the question: is the European issue of this disc (which contains an extra folded leaflet in English) subject to a pressing or mastering error in the Surround layer? If so, the second disc in the Ashkenazy series issued in Europe (Symphonies 4 and 5) has the same problem, as does the Moma Kodama Debussy recital disc which I reviewed recently - also from Octavia Records. Judging from previous posts about problematic Exton discs, there is little point in writing to them, so I would be most grateful to hear from Daland if he bought the disc from Japan, and also from any one else who has bought any of these discs in the last few weeks from a European source.

I agree with Daland that this is a very promising series from the performance point of view, but my experience of the recording - or Exton's quality control - has been very poor indeed.

Thanks, John

Post by Polly Nomial April 18, 2008 (2 of 20)
I've got the European set and would agree that the sound is very lifeless indeed - not so convinced about the performances either; like you, reviews are in the pipework.

PN

Post by Peter April 18, 2008 (3 of 20)
This is indeed disappointing. What's the stereo mix like?
I'm fond of Ashkenazy's Philharmonia cycle.

Post by Geohominid April 18, 2008 (4 of 20)
Hi Peter,
The stereo mix is very multi-miked but not as bad as some other Extons - but when the triple forte climaxes arrive in Symphony 1 the brass all zoom forward, with the trumpets on your lap, not a comfortable sound and disrupting the work done by Ashkenazy and the brass players to achieve that special Sibelius blend which he worked so hard to produce. In Symphony 3, the brass are not so badly spotlighted, but instead the string sections come in for close attention: exciting, yes, but again disrupting the dynamics which Sibelius so carefully scored. I've been following the works with full scores and comparing movement by movement with Jarvi's full set on DGG. Despite this being a relatively low definition 48kHz/24bit PCM, the Jarvi sound, although not perfect, has plenty of air around it, so when the brass expound from their positions at the back their sound has a thrilling bloom. Jarvi's sound is for me more comfortable for absorbing the music without being distracted by sonics. Having said that, the Exton DSD stereo has a revealing wealth of detail on timbres and inner voices; for example the complex interlocked rapid leaping figures on divided strings in the first mvt of Symphony 3 are breathtaking, something I've never managed to hear in concert.

I've put in a query to JPC about the status of the Exton discs.

Post by Peter April 18, 2008 (5 of 20)
Many thanks for the info, John. Yes, the orchestra on wheels syndrome, sections pushed back and forth at odd times. There's a bit of that in the Respighi/Belfagor et al recording.

Peter

Post by ramesh April 18, 2008 (6 of 20)
I have the Japanese version of the Sib 4 & 5, but alas no MC set up. I'm happy to post it for purposes of comparison if someone can't source an alternative from nearby.

Post by Daland April 18, 2008 (7 of 20)
Geohominid said:

I have been spending some time preparing a review of the first disc in this 'new' cycle (Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3 - Ashkenazy), which together with Symphonies 4 & 5 has just been released in Europe. I noted from Daland's review from last year that he praised the Exton recording as one of the best he had heard, adding that the rear channels were given more prominence than usual (for this label?). This is absolutely contrary to my experience; in order to hear any of the surround speakers at all, I had to switch off the front channels and then turn up the volume. The centre channel is barely audible and consists of a muffled signal at the end of a very long tunnel; the rears carry a somewhat louder version of the same signal. It sounds like someone put a very cheap microphone in the foyer of the magnificent Stockholm Konserthus and tried to pick up the orchestra with the doors to the auditorium closed. In other words, the surround effect is virtually useless.

This raises the question: is the European issue of this disc (which contains an extra folded leaflet in English) subject to a pressing or mastering error in the Surround layer? If so, the second disc in the Ashkenazy series issued in Europe (Symphonies 4 and 5) has the same problem, as does the Moma Kodama Debussy recital disc which I reviewed recently - also from Octavia Records. Judging from previous posts about problematic Exton discs, there is little point in writing to them, so I would be most grateful to hear from Daland if he bought the disc from Japan, and also from any one else who has bought any of these discs in the last few weeks from a European source.

I agree with Daland that this is a very promising series from the performance point of view, but my experience of the recording - or Exton's quality control - has been very poor indeed.

Thanks, John

I bought the disc from Japan. To my surprise I found that the centre channel was very prominent, almost as loud as the front speakers (the timpani virtually jumped at me). The rear channels were less prominent, but clearly audible (as in a Sony recording). So the three-dimensional effect was more pronounced than in other Exton recordings. I found the sonic experience very satisfying, with a rich tapestry of silky strings and a well-differentiated brass section.

A statement like "It sounds like someone put a very cheap microphone in the foyer of the magnificent Stockholm Konserthus and tried to pick up the orchestra with the doors to the auditorium closed" is a mystery to me. I listened to the whole recording two hours ago and found that the sound engineers had done a very good job. The different impressions of the sound have probably less to do with quality control than with the set-up of the hi-fi system.

Post by fafnir April 18, 2008 (8 of 20)
Daland said:

I bought the disc from Japan. To my surprise I found that the centre channel was very prominent, almost as loud as the front speakers (the timpani virtually jumped at me). The rear channels were less prominent, but clearly audible (as in a Sony recording). So the three-dimensional effect was more pronounced than in other Exton recordings. I found the sonic experience very satisfying, with a rich tapestry of silky strings and a well-differentiated brass section.

A statement like "It sounds like someone put a very cheap microphone in the foyer of the magnificent Stockholm Konserthus and tried to pick up the orchestra with the doors to the auditorium closed" is a mystery to me. I listened to the whole recording two hours ago and found that the sound engineers had done a very good job. The different impressions of the sound have probably less to do with quality control than with the set-up of the hi-fi system.

Having enjoyed Askenazy's Decca Sibelius very much over the last two decades or so, I ordered the 1&3, and 4&5 discs from MDT. They are currently in the mail. I will keep an open mind on the sound quality until they arrive; I don't know what to expect at this point. However, I am often in agreement with Daland concerning sound quality - much more so than with some others.

Exton seems to be extremely variable with respect to sound quality - some good (none really excellent) and some poor. I will toss in my opinion for what it's worth after I've heard them.

Post by nickc April 18, 2008 (9 of 20)
Geohominid said:

I have been spending some time preparing a review of the first disc in this 'new' cycle (Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 1 & 3 - Ashkenazy), which together with Symphonies 4 & 5 has just been released in Europe. I noted from Daland's review from last year that he praised the Exton recording as one of the best he had heard, adding that the rear channels were given more prominence than usual (for this label?). This is absolutely contrary to my experience; in order to hear any of the surround speakers at all, I had to switch off the front channels and then turn up the volume. The centre channel is barely audible and consists of a muffled signal at the end of a very long tunnel; the rears carry a somewhat louder version of the same signal. It sounds like someone put a very cheap microphone in the foyer of the magnificent Stockholm Konserthus and tried to pick up the orchestra with the doors to the auditorium closed. In other words, the surround effect is virtually useless.

This raises the question: is the European issue of this disc (which contains an extra folded leaflet in English) subject to a pressing or mastering error in the Surround layer? If so, the second disc in the Ashkenazy series issued in Europe (Symphonies 4 and 5) has the same problem, as does the Moma Kodama Debussy recital disc which I reviewed recently - also from Octavia Records. Judging from previous posts about problematic Exton discs, there is little point in writing to them, so I would be most grateful to hear from Daland if he bought the disc from Japan, and also from any one else who has bought any of these discs in the last few weeks from a European source.

I agree with Daland that this is a very promising series from the performance point of view, but my experience of the recording - or Exton's quality control - has been very poor indeed.

Thanks, John

Hi John
I was interested in both the Debussy and Sibelius discs, now I'm not so sure...With the Debussy when you say there is no signal from the centre/surrounds and give 1/5, do you mean that the MC section sounds 5 times worse than the stereo section, or that it sounds just the same and is a waste of time? If it was recorded in 2002 it could be a fake MC layer.
When were the Sibelius discs recorded? I thought they were fairly new so hopefully it would be a real MC layer.
Cheers
Nick

Post by Geohominid April 18, 2008 (10 of 20)
Thanks very much for the info, Daland. That seems to clarify matters and suggests that the European issue (or certainly my copies thereof) has a pressing or mastering error in which the surrounds have only a palimpsest signal. Since the first two Sibelius cycle discs were recorded in 2006, I would have expected them to have 'normal' surround signals just as you describe, and was very surprised and disappointed that this was not the case.

Geo

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