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seth said:
So surround sound now outweighs everything?
As regards my purchase of repertoire I already have several different recordings of dating from the middle to late 1950's to the middle to late 1990's - Yes! And with regard to the "...now..." - this is nothing new with me.
I purchased an SACD system to experience to the extent possible, the sound of a concert hall in my home. Even SACD stereo fails to accomplish that to the extent that surround SACD does.
Having made that purchase of equipment, I am in the process of obtaining favorite works recorded properly in the medium to fulfill that objective. Whether or not a conductor has "anything new" to offer regards interpretation is thus, for me, irrelevant. (But of course it has to be high quality surround sound - certainly not DTS or Dolby, and the performance has to be at least competent, at minimum!).
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Windsurfer said:
So YEAH - I needed this, not for interpretational aspects but because it is the first set in modern SACD surround sound and for me that is reason enough. I will report later on how it actually works out as I just now opened the package!
I listened to the 39th and first two movements of the G minor last night. Frankly I was disappointed (HA - and I said intrepretation didn't matter!) to discover an HIP performance with a (from my viewpoint you understand) lack of vibrato in the strings. I hate that lean, borderline shrill sound of strings played with no vibrato! So it is something I will listen to occasionally I guess, in place of lashing myself with a raw hide whip when I feel I should do penance for some perceived misdemeanor.
Otherwise the sound is excellent although I found the balance of sound from front to rear was a little too conservative, placing a lot of the reverberant sound up front instead of in the surround - yes my player was playing it in 5.0 channels and I should state that it wasn't as bad as if it were played in stereo with ALL the reverberant information coming from in front.
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Post by Arthur March 4, 2008 (23 of 32)
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Windsurfer said:
I listened to the 39th and first two movements of the G minor last night. Frankly I was disappointed (HA - and I said intrepretation didn't matter!) to discover an HIP performance with a (from my viewpoint you understand) lack of vibrato in the strings. I hate that lean, borderline shrill sound of strings played with no vibrato! So it is something I will listen to occasionally I guess, in place of lashing myself with a raw hide whip when I feel I should do penance for some perceived misdemeanor.
Otherwise the sound is excellent although I found the balance of sound from front to rear was a little too conservative, placing a lot of the reverberant sound up front instead of in the surround - yes my player was playing it in 5.0 channels and I should state that it wasn't as bad as if it were played in stereo with ALL the reverberant information coming from in front.
I'm with you on this, Windsurfer. I also was looking forward to a modern surround Mozart recording, but that harsh, tinny string sound is a HUGE turn-off!
I was really down on "original instruments" until I heard Fabio Biondi, Rinaldo Alessandrini, et al perform. They play without the metallic edge. (Perhaps someone can educate me as to why: I suspect, horror of horrors, they use just a touch of vibrato!) I really find it hard to believe people back then really listened to those sounds and loved them. To me, it's no wonder to me that lush modern strings quickly won out when they were introduced! And today's movement strikes me as so much revisionist history.
I'm sure my "closed-mindedness" is deserving of attack, but no matter how much my mind tries to accept, my ears rebel!
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Post by wehecht March 4, 2008 (24 of 32)
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Windsurfer said:
I listened to the 39th and first two movements of the G minor last night. Frankly I was disappointed (HA - and I said intrepretation didn't matter!) to discover an HIP performance with a (from my viewpoint you understand) lack of vibrato in the strings. I hate that lean, borderline shrill sound of strings played with no vibrato! So it is something I will listen to occasionally I guess, in place of lashing myself with a raw hide whip when I feel I should do penance for some perceived misdemeanor.
My set arrived yesterday (fine service from Crochet). What sounds to Bruce to be "borderline shrill" sounds just fine to me, after a 2-3 db level cut. Some of that I'm sure is simply a matter of taste, or perhaps the loss of sensitivity to high frequencies that comes with being 61 years old, but my guess is that it's mostly accounted for by the differences in our music systems. Plainly put, his is considerably more revealing than mine, and, from my limited experience with Apogee speakers, also considerably less tolerant of high frequency brightness. While I don't want to re-ignite the debate over whether reviewers need to identify their equipment (personally I'm on the "con" side of that one) I guess I'm submitting this comment as a kind of reminder that all of our reviews/comments about sound can only reflect what our systems reproduce in our rooms.
As to performance, these are seriously influenced by the HIP viewpoint. This should come as no surprise given Sir Charles' Telarc set which relied heavily on the musicological work of William Malloch, particularly in regard to tempi. Some of us think it makes sense and like it, some of us don't; and just listen to the Hogwood and Gardiner sets to be disabused of the notion that HIP means the same thing to all it's practitioners. I personally enjoy Sir Charles' way with this music even if it requires some adjustment on my part. For instance if I had only one word to describe #39 it would normally be "enchanting", while in this set it would be "thrilling".
I'll happily buy whatever Mackerras recordings Linn chooses to issue, though personally I'd opt for Haydn rather than Mozart.
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wehecht said:
My set arrived yesterday (fine service from Crochet). What sounds to Bruce to be "borderline shrill" sounds just fine to me, after a 2-3 db level cut.
Actually I am not sure "borderline shrill" was a good descriptor of my reaction. Astringent or even Acerbic maybe? I sometimes find myself interested in aspects of period informed performance, but a small body of strings, playing without vibrato - just isn't my cup of tea.
BTW we heard Levine and the Boston Symphony give a wonderfully lovely performance of the symphony #29 on February 23rd in Symphony Hall. Oh for sound like that!
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Post by Masolino March 22, 2008 (26 of 32)
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Windsurfer said:
Actually I am not sure "borderline shrill" was a good descriptor of my reaction. Astringent or even Acerbic maybe? I sometimes find myself interested in aspects of period informed performance, but a small body of strings, playing without vibrato - just isn't my cup of tea.
These are not gut strings that we talked about here - steel strings sound really metallic without vibrato. Note most period instrument groups actually use gut or (silver) wrapped gut strings and this creates the significant difference you mentioned from Biondi et al.
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I hear a weird sound, which is present on the 2nd mov.(andante cantabile) to Symphony in C. it last a couple of seconds from 5:34 mark.
I suppose it comes from the 1st violins.
Does anyone know what that is?
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Post by mx2005 May 30, 2008 (28 of 32)
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What a lovely few hours I've just spent with this set. Just gorgeous! It all just seems so natural - from performance to recording. Elegance, refinement, excitement and drama! I shall be returning to this often! (What a shame Philips didn't issue more of the Brendel/Mackerras concerto recordings too - we need more Mackerras/SCO on SACD!)
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Post by ~~Phil~~ May 31, 2008 (29 of 32)
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mx2005 said:
(What a shame Philips didn't issue more of the Brendel/Mackerras concerto recordings too - we need more Mackerras/SCO on SACD!)
I couldn't agree with you more....The Mozart Piano Concertos with Brendel/Mackerras/SCO are in my top 5 ever released classical SACD's....
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Does Mackerras use clarinets in the performance of Mozart's Sympnony No. 40 in this set? I recall he did NOT use them in the TELARC recording, I like the plummier sound of the clarinets, versus only flutes and oboes. I always use the clarinets when I conduct this work.
Will someone please check, so I can decide whether to buy this set, or not?
Thanks!
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