Post by Peter December 20, 2007 (11 of 24)
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ramesh said:
PCM will be X-terminated!
And Dr Who will end up looking like Mark Levinson, while his assistant will be Kim Cattrall.
There must be a joke involving DSD/DXD somewhere.......and sonic screwdrivers.
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Post by ramesh January 22, 2008 (12 of 24)
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Sigfred said:
Could this be the same "Direct Cut" used by the label Stockfish Records? Found the following on the labels homepage for Liszt: Late Piano Works - Peter Toth:
"In CREAR we used our SADiE DSD8 system for the recording, processing and mastering of this DIRECT-CUT-SUPER-AUDIO-CD – a brand-new system from the tradition-steeped British manufacturer of mastering equipment that allows simultaneous recording of 8 channels in Direct Stream Digital. The analogue signal from the microphone is converted at the input to DSD and is also maintained in DSD format throughout the processing stages. The end result is then obtained in the SADiE DSD8 – the “cutting master” (AIT tape) – which is later transferred directly to an SACD glass master in the pressing plant.
Could these be related to the glass CDs? However, Japanese glass CDs cost at least 98700 yen each.
Punyversal Japan released Karajan's 1962 Beethoven 9 last month on glass CD for a mere 200000 yen [ hmv.co.jp special discount online price.]
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Post by Livy January 22, 2008 (13 of 24)
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ramesh said:
Could these be related to the glass CDs? However, Japanese glass CDs cost at least 98700 yen each.
Punyversal Japan released Karajan's 1962 Beethoven 9 last month on glass CD for a mere 200000 yen [ hmv.co.jp special discount online price.]
Yes, I checked this out - $1900 and change in US dollars. But for the weak dollar, this could have been had for probably 25% less....
Anyone going to give Direct Cut a try? I've decided against it (because I can't import it into my iTunes from the Direct Cut layer....just kidding.)
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Post by wolfE September 28, 2008 (14 of 24)
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Short prolog: In another thread I – like other members of the forum - made my jokes about this unbelievable expensive series. So I had to wait a little and overcome my shame before posting this thread and confess that meanwhile I bought some of my favorite Extons in this alternative mastering version. Because the price did not include a trip to Japan and dinner with Mr. Ezaki, I am not able to add more technical information. I only can repeat my speculation, that in the post-production they avoided any conversion to high bit PCM resp. that there were few post-production steps than in the normal version.
Now to the interesting point, the sound comparison between the so-called direct-cut versions and the normal DSD-SA-CDs. The basis are three recordings, Mozart KV 488, Grieg / Tschaikowsky piano concertos, all with Shimizu, and the Tschaikowsky 5th with Kobayashi.
The result: improvements in nearly all aspects. More three-dimensional soundstage, more air between the instruments resp. the different parts of the orchestra, more inner dynamics, more atmosphere, more impact for example of the piano, more natural timbre of all instruments, especially the violins or the woodwind section.
So I do not regret having bought them and will buy the one or other, when they appear on the “Recent additions” list, before the financial crisis reaches my bank. For example the fanatastic Mozart horn concertos with van Zelm.
So I can recommend these versions.
If someone should ask whether the improvements justyfy the price? I would answer the same as being asked about the price of cars like Mercedes, Ferrari or Porsche. Its not a thing of value for money. Fortunately I do not have any preference for expensive cars…
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Post by zeus September 28, 2008 (15 of 24)
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wolfE said:
I only can repeat my speculation, that in the post-production they avoided any conversion to high bit PCM resp. that there were few post-production steps than in the normal version.
My understanding is that the "direct" applies to elimination of steps in the cutting of the master. The bits would be identical. As such, any differences would be due to player-disc interaction (reduced jitter). But all this is speculation on my part.
Here's the list of available titles:
/search/exton+direct/1/0/0/1
/search/triton+direct/1/0/0/1
Given the limited number of pressings, I'm sure these will be real collectors items in 10 years time.
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Post by Claude September 29, 2008 (16 of 24)
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zeus said:
Given the limited number of pressings, I'm sure these will be real collectors items in 10 years time.
I don't think so. I rather think that they will be forgotten soon.
Unlike with pop or jazz releases, there are very few classical CDs or SACDs which become collector's items, because most cult recordings get reissued over and over again, and very few classical interpretations are so special that collectors are ready to pay high prices for OOP discs. There is nothing unique about these Exton releases of often recorded works, except that they are limited edition discs. Just because they are "direct cut" doesn't mean they sound better than other SACD recordings of the same works (which could make them collector's items for audiophiles)
Take for example the early Sony Classical SACDs which are now OOP. Only very few of them (the Sacre by Stravinsky himself, for example) reach as high prices as the OOP Sony SACDs with pop or jazz material. Most sell for less their new price.
Given their exorbitant selling price, it's very unlikely that the Exton Direct Cut SACDs will ever reach a higher value on the second hand market once they are OOP.
In case you were thinking of it as an investment ...
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Post by andrewb September 29, 2008 (17 of 24)
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Claude said:
I don't think so. I rather think that they will be forgotten soon.
...
There is nothing unique about these Exton releases of often recorded works, except that they are limited edition discs. Just because they are "direct cut" doesn't mean they sound better than other SACD recordings of the same works
Given their exorbitant selling price, it's very unlikely that the Exton Direct Cut SACDs will ever reach a higher value on the second hand market once they are OOP.
...
I agree with Claude's view. The Exton recordings are not particularly good to start with, probably because most of them are from live concerts with patching.
The studio recordings from BIS, Pentatone, Channel Classics are far superior and 'Direct Cut' is not going to make up for the basic deficiency in the Exton recordings.
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Post by Daland September 29, 2008 (18 of 24)
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andrewb said:
The Exton recordings are not particularly good to start with, probably because most of them are from live concerts with patching.
The studio recordings from BIS, Pentatone, Channel Classics are far superior and 'Direct Cut' is not going to make up for the basic deficiency in the Exton recordings.
I agree that studio recordings are preferable. But it is unfair to describe Exton recordings generally as "not particularly good". There are a number of excellent recordings among them, especially those conducted by Macal (Mahler's Third is superb) and Ashkenazy (Beethoven, Sibelius, Mozart).
But does anybody know why the "Direct Cut" releases are in stereo only although all or most of them are available as normal SACDs in multi-channel?
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Post by Sam September 29, 2008 (19 of 24)
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zeus said:
Indeed, Au Dio fans will be dying disk.
Is this a safety warning?
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Post by wolfE September 29, 2008 (20 of 24)
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andrewb said:
I agree with Claude's view. The Exton recordings are not particularly good to start with, probably because most of them are from live concerts with patching.
The studio recordings from BIS, Pentatone, Channel Classics are far superior and 'Direct Cut' is not going to make up for the basic deficiency in the Exton recordings.
I disagree and underline Daland’s post concerning the musical quality of Exton (resp. Triton and Cryston) recordings. You can find excellent interpretations among them, but also weak and boring ones. That’s not a thing of the label or the studio/live discussion. I think that’s the wrong approach. Well recorded live sessions can have more vividness and musical flow than “perfect” studio recordings. And in my collection I have many good and some great ones from Pentatone, Channel (Fischer’s excellent Mahler 2th!) or BIS, but also disappointing recordings. All mentioned lables have merits concerning the SA-CD format, but I listen to music, not to labels.
At last it’s a point of personal taste, which interpretation you prefer. And for me even a point of actual mood, whether for example I listen to Heifetz or to Grumiaux or to Fischer, when I want to hear Tschaikowskys violin concerto. All great interpretations, but different.
Some of my favorite Extons (Tritons, Crystons), which I would put in a line with better known recordings are: Bruckner 7th with van Zweden, Sibelius 2th with Oramo, the concertos and solo piano recordings of Kazune Shimizu (Chopin!!), the Mozart piano concertos with Ashkenazy (for me old fashioned in a good sense), many recordings with Zdenek Macal, for example a great interpretation of Tschaikowsky’s Pathetique, and of course Mahler 3th, which Daland already mentioned.
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