Thread: SACD / DSD via HDMI-- what's the skinny?

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Post by voyman August 11, 2008 (101 of 103)
Hello everyone, I'm new here!

Now, this first bit is primarly in response to "Julien" and is, forgive me, off-topic and rather philosophical so feel free to skip over it.

--- BEGIN RANT ---

Julien, I don't know what kind of setups you tested to draw the conclusion that the car (or even house) priced audio equipment is so extremely superior as you make it sound - or rather that excellent products like the Onkyo 905 (which I own myself) sound "bad" in comparison.
Let me explain from my own personal viewpoint why I think you're rather off in that assessment: firstly, it's all about the setup - or as some experts like to call it the mise-en-place. That is to say, something like 90% of the quality you can get from your equipment (regardless of its price tag) depends on where and how it is setup. For example, as I'm sure you know, tube amps are rather sensitive to temperature change i.e. the sound characteristics and to a lesser degree the quality changes with the ambient temperature. So putting it under a window might not be so sensible. On the other hand, digital equipment that does some kind or other of processing is extremly dependent on correct configuration regarding the room, speaker placement etc. Also, the room itself of course has a great influence on the resulting experience.
Now please bear this in mind when stating something like (not direct quote) "replacing a receiver with some audiophile amp would greatly improve sound quality" since this would probably be wrong in most cases as most people who actually own one of these said receivers don't have a perfectly setup (stereo) listening room and would therefore actually lose quality because they could no longer benefit from the - again excellent - Audyssey EQ who corrects to some degree the inadequacies of the room.
Further, to be fair, a comparison of equipment always has to take place under the same conditions in order to be accurate - this is never the case unless you are actually fortunate enough to have some insane dealer who would loan you a 100k $/£/€ setup to test it against what you have at your home (and would also take the time to set it up perfectly for you since this is no small feat!).
This bring us to my second point which is my own personal experience: like I said above, I own a Onkyo 905 (which since I only bought it about 3 months ago will be replaced free of charge by my dealer with a 906 that'll come out in September after the IFA) with a Jamo D7 7.2 THX Ultra2 speaker set (More on my setup and actual reason for coming to this thread later). Before I bought the Onkyo, I wondered about what to chose for the audio part of my setup and therefore went to my local High End Hifi specialist with a large amount of cash and a "simple" request: to select for me the best value for money product. He only took about 3 secondes before he handed me the Onkyo :-) When I asked him why he didn't recommend the higher up models of the usual brands (like Denon A1HD, Yamaha Z11, Pioneer Susano etc.) or even specialist equipment from luxury brands, he reasoned that only specific situations and a very select few ears would actually benefit from those products. Since I really didn't know any better, I trusted his judgement and bought the Onkyo.
And then I tought of a nice little test for it: my mom's boyfriend is a true audiophile (he's blind and therefore has extremly precise hearing) and his setup cost about as much as the average Mercedes - it's custom made electronics from french make YBA with Wilson Alexandria speakers. So, one day I went over with my Onkyo and asked him if it would be okay to switch out his preamp and monoblocks with my Onkyo and for him to do a comparison of the two after a quick and dirty setup of the Onkyo. He agreed and after about half an hour of setup and maybe 2-3 hours of listening to all the different music he'd previously enjoyed, the conclusion was for the both of us an extremly surprising one: he said that to his ears, there were only slight difference in sound quality and that depending on the type of music he would be hard pressed to have heard even those!! Granted, this was in stereo from CD so maybe it would be different in multichannel SACD but since most audiophiles prefer stereo I think this is still an interesting fact.

Long story short: don't underestimate the power of the newer technology, it may yet surprise even you.

--- END RANT ---

On topic: I'm wondering if anyone here has tested the Pioneer DV-LX50 for it's SACD capabilities. I'm looking to add a decent DSD->HDMI->Onkyo SACD player to my rack and so far have only found the Oppos (which I don't like much) and the 3 higher end Pioneer players (600, 800 and LX50) who have the option to output multichannel DSD through HDMI. The reason I'd rather have the LX50 than one of the others is that it has a control in jack which I need for a reliable integration in my home automation system.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the length.

Post by Bobpaule August 25, 2008 (102 of 103)
FunkyMonkey said:

1) Price no object: SACD-capable PS3 with Onkyo 905.

2) Onkyo 605 and Oppo DV-980.

Sory but the PS3 does not pass DSD as well as it does not pass bitstream for DTSHD-MA and the others.

The Onkyo 605 does not do one step DSD processing, the lowest Onker that will
do it is the 875.

The Oppo DV-980 mated with the Onkyo 905 will do the job very nicely.

Hope this helps clarify things.

Post by swestbom August 28, 2008 (103 of 103)
Bobpaule said:

Sory but the PS3 does not pass DSD as well as it does not pass bitstream for DTSHD-MA and the others.

The Onkyo 605 does not do one step DSD processing, the lowest Onker that will
do it is the 875.

The Oppo DV-980 mated with the Onkyo 905 will do the job very nicely.

Hope this helps clarify things.

805, not the 875, it is identical to the 875 except for a few bells and whistles, an extra HDMI input and of course the lack of the Reon 1080p video processing (none of which affect audio). The new 806 is POC by the way.

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