add to wish list | library


29 of 33 recommend this,
would you recommend it?

yes | no

Support this site by purchasing from these vendors using the paid links below. As an Amazon Associate SA-CD.net earns from qualifying purchases.
 
amazon.ca
amazon.co.uk
amazon.com
amazon.de
 
amazon.fr
amazon.it
 
jpc

Discussion: Mozart: Concertone for 2 violins, Sinfonia concertante - Fischer, Nikolic, Kreizberg

Posts: 49
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 next

Post by pelley November 21, 2007 (1 of 49)
Polly Nomial, could you elaborate a bit on the following statement from your review:

"...the opening tutti to the glorious Sinfonia Concertante has numerous felicities brushed over or ignored in a quite a cavalier fashion..."

This phrase of yours has stuck in my mind each time I listen to this disc. I've compared it to the RBCD version by Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields. ASMF sounds more "delicate" to me. I don't necessarily disagree with your statement, but I'd like to learn more. Please educate!

Post by Windsurfer November 21, 2007 (2 of 49)
pelley said:

Polly Nomial, could you elaborate a bit on the following statement from your review:

"...the opening tutti to the glorious Sinfonia Concertante has numerous felicities brushed over or ignored in a quite a cavalier fashion..."

For a contrasting opinion read the review in Gramophone magazine. This does not discredit PN's review, but perhaps cast a different light on the rather "gruff" orchestral performance.

I wonder, if it isn't supposed to be similar to what might have been done in Mozart's time...only with modern instruments. Reading the accompanying booklet leads us to understand perhaps why the "bumptious" quality of the music making.

Post by Polly Nomial November 21, 2007 (3 of 49)
pelley said:

Polly Nomial, could you elaborate a bit on the following statement from your review:

"...the opening tutti to the glorious Sinfonia Concertante has numerous felicities brushed over or ignored in a quite a cavalier fashion..."

Well, for example in the opening tutti, the delightful pizzicato "phrases" from the violins are all but buried here - swamped in an admittedly lovely mush of sound. Even most RBCD's manage to better present this (even those recorded before the advent of spot-miking). This is the most blatant example to which I was alluding and as I love this moment it grates horribly with me (there were others but this is still firmly fixed in my mind...)

Post by Barryroque November 25, 2007 (4 of 49)
Polly Nomial said:

Well, for example in the opening tutti, the delightful pizzicato "phrases" from the violins are all but buried here - swamped in an admittedly lovely mush of sound. Even most RBCD's manage to better present this (even those recorded before the advent of spot-miking). This is the most blatant example to which I was alluding and as I love this moment it grates horribly with me (there were others but this is still firmly fixed in my mind...)

This is complete nonsense.
The pizzicatos are perfectly clear on my system and sound exactly as they do in the concert hall. As for your comments on the sound produced by Gordon Nikolic, I find them equally misguided.
Perhaps your system needs some tuning? I suggest that you listen to this recording again and maybe revise your review accordingly.

Post by Polly Nomial November 25, 2007 (5 of 49)
Barryroque said:

This is complete nonsense.
The pizzicatos are perfectly clear on my system and sound exactly as they do in the concert hall. As for your comments on the sound produced by Gordon Nikolic, I find them equally misguided.
Perhaps your system needs some tuning? I suggest that you listen to this recording again and maybe revise your review accordingly.

In your opinion maybe but irrespective of whether you think I am writing "complete nonsense" perhaps I might ask to use more polite phrases?

I have recently tuned my system and re-listened to the recording; my views hold firm. Without wishing to be patronising, you do realise I am referring to the descending arpeggio figure that precedes the 2 (forte) offbeat pizzicato that *are* crystal clear?

Post by Barryroque November 26, 2007 (6 of 49)
Polly Nomial said:

In your opinion maybe but irrespective of whether you think I am writing "complete nonsense" perhaps I might ask to use more polite phrases?

I was not aware that "complete nonsense" was an impolite phrase, more my reaction to what you wrote. Perhaps "inaccurate and unfair" would be more acceptable to you.
I am fully aware that the pizzicatos to which you refer are those between 1'12 and 1'16 not the louder ones from 1'17 onwards. These are, I repeat, perfectly audible on my speakers (B&W 803s). What speakers do you use?

Post by Polly Nomial November 26, 2007 (7 of 49)
Barryroque said:

I was not aware that "complete nonsense" was an impolite phrase, more my reaction to what you wrote. Perhaps "inaccurate and unfair" would be more acceptable to you.
I am fully aware that the pizzicatos to which you refer are those between 1'12 and 1'16 not the louder ones from 1'17 onwards. These are, I repeat, perfectly audible on my speakers (B&W 803s). What speakers do you use?

Fair enough. I'm not saying the pizzicatos are inaudible (I can make them out) but that they are far from what can be made of them, musically speaking, on this recording - disappointing given that RBCD's exist with them highlighted better by the conductor (I've been lucky in concert in that they were clearly audible as well). For me, they are (relatively speaking - there are few absolutes in this field) well camouflaged.

Also, Nikolic is not suited to Fischer (I saw him take the same role with Mutter a few years back and there the match was good) - it's not that he's bad full stop but bad for Fischer.

Lastly, for many reasons (for which you can search on this site) I have not and will not publicise the equipment that I use.

Post by stvnharr February 17, 2008 (8 of 49)
Barryroque said:

The pizzicatos are perfectly clear on my system and sound exactly as they do in the concert hall. As for your comments on the sound produced by Gordon Nikolic, I find them equally misguided.
Perhaps your system needs some tuning? I suggest that you listen to this recording again and maybe revise your review accordingly.

As I have recently acquired this disc I had to have a listen for the pizzicatos in question here. On my system they were perfectly clear, as Barryoque has mentioned.
I find with these kind of comments about sound that it's usually the system, not the disc. If it's a disc problem, everyone with the disc will usually have it.

I rather liked this disc.

Post by Jonalogic September 16, 2010 (9 of 49)
Folks

Hmmm... 9 out of 12 found my carefully crafted and analytical, but negative assessment unhelpful.

That tells me a lot about this forum:

** Conflicting opinions are not welcome;

** Criticism of certain major labels not welcome; (gee, the last time I criticised a BIS...)

** Negative reviews not welcome; it's abundantly clear that when I say anything good in a review, people like it. By contrast, all my negative reviews are rated as less helpful. That's just childish, frankly.

** Truth - admittedly as I hear it with high end system and BBC-trained ears - not welcome;

That's not a forum, it's a smug little club! Not all, of course, but there do seem to be an unusual number of self-evident cliques here. Ah, politics...

We really can't escape it anywhere, can we?

Jon

Post by porpielee September 16, 2010 (10 of 49)
Jonalogic said:

Folks

Hmmm... 9 out of 12 found my carefully crafted and analytical, but negative assessment unhelpful.

That tells me a lot about this forum:

No. That tells you about 9 people in the forum. I voted helpful by the way.

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 next

Closed