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Discussion: Brahms: Symphony No. 1, Haydn Variations - Janowski

Posts: 17
Page: 1 2 next

Post by zeus July 10, 2007 (1 of 17)
Some background to the recording:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc8ikKESioM

Post by tommwi July 10, 2007 (2 of 17)
Nice clips–thanks for the tip. It seems to be done by 2nd horn Bob inside the orchestra. Being the Brahms freak I am, I immediately noticed the very fresh and spontaneous sound that were captured, perhaps also with some not so welcome cut short phrases in the horns (actually) and wasn’t it generally quite speedy? But promising indeed! I have a favourite Sibelius from this orchestra; the violin concerto with a young Rachlin is great. I hope Pentatone manage to produce a recording this time with fuller bass response than their previous outputs.

/Tommy

Post by Polly Nomial July 10, 2007 (3 of 17)
tommwi said:

I hope Pentatone manage to produce a recording this time with fuller bass response than their previous outputs.

/Tommy

Generally I find that Pentatone (or Polyhymnia) reproduce the bass of the combined ensemble & acoustic - if there is a "lack" of bass response it is most likely not to be the engineering at "fault", more the choice of the artists and/or the acoustic signature of the venues used. It has to be said that their approach is far removed from the heavy-bass Telarc model and IMO much the better for it!

Post by Arthur July 10, 2007 (4 of 17)
zeus said:

Some background to the recording:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc8ikKESioM

Thanks! This was already the number one item on my wishlist, and from the bits shown, I think I will like the performance style.

Post by Windsurfer July 10, 2007 (5 of 17)
tommwi said:

I hope Pentatone manage to produce a recording this time with fuller bass response than their previous outputs.

/Tommy

I find the bass on PentaTone recordings to be very fine - in fact you would be surprised that someone who (maybe a founder) writes regularly on Julia Fischer's fan club vis Yahoo, complained about the thumping timps and growling basses he heard on her Brahms concerto recording. I think he has a standing wave problem and probably needs to move his speakers closer to or away from the wall. But recordings with little bass never provoke that kind of problem.

Post by tommwi July 10, 2007 (6 of 17)
Regarding a possible lack of bass in Pentatone recordings - well I can only rely on my own ears. My equipment should normally be considered a bit bass heavy (MF electronics/Dynaudio). And I definitely agree on the importance of room acoustics and speaker positions, it makes much difference, but I don’t believe that is the whole truth here. Nor do I believe my preferences for 2-channel audio is a reason.

For me there has always been a feeling of the Pentatone recordings (the new ones) not fully meeting the rave views they have had on these pages. There is a kind of audible common denominator (hmm… - I guess you must teach on what that is :) Polly) in the Pentatone sound on surprisingly many of their recordings. It’s like a sort of house sound or sound mark perhaps, but I’m afraid I will have to describe it as lacking in low end support in a context of otherwise great clarity and treble smoothness, also somewhat bright in its overall concept. But of course this can be the hall or an artistic decision.

I must be the only person who believes there is room for improvements by Pentatone. Nevertheless this Pentatone release will add on an already estimated budget deficit for September - October this fall. That is a reality! I only wish for a more fuller Brahmsian sound. That will make the financial burden easier to carry!

/Tommy

PS. You know I’ve been told; of all the human senses, hearing is regarded as the one that differ between individuals the most at birth and that differences remain throughout our lives. Don’t ask me to prove it though. Funny to end up talking about impossible topics...

Post by tailspn August 10, 2007 (7 of 17)
I just received this, and I'm very favorably impressed. I'll only comment on the sound, which I think is one of the most realistic PentaTone has released. It really does sound like the place. The strings have that ideal combination of bite, woodiness, sheen and space. There is a realistic impact from the tympani, and a great feeling of dynamic range and space. It's more like a real orchestra sounds. Overall there is a beautiful balance between spaciousness and detail, and a realism not often heard.

The booklet credits the recording facility as being Polyhymnia and Telarc, with Everett Porter of Polyhymnia as balance engineer. It appears that Polyhymnia brought its microphones and Telarc supplied the preamps, analog mixing console, and Sonoma workstation. Whatever the arrangement was, I hope PentaTone and Polyhymnia and the PSO continue the same hardware kit.

The sound to me is very analog, with an almost tactile feel to it, like you could reach out and touch the instruments. I highly recommend it!

Tom

Post by Livy August 13, 2007 (8 of 17)
tailspn said:

I just received this, and I'm very favorably impressed.

Is the venue Heinz Hall in Pittsburgh? Have you ever heard a live performance there and could you describe its accoustics?

Post by Windsurfer August 13, 2007 (9 of 17)
tommwi said:

Regarding a possible lack of bass in Pentatone recordings - well I can only rely on my own ears. My equipment should normally be considered a bit bass heavy (MF electronics/Dynaudio). And I definitely agree on the importance of room acoustics and speaker positions, it makes much difference, but I don’t believe that is the whole truth here. Nor do I believe my preferences for 2-channel audio is a reason.

For me there has always been a feeling of the Pentatone recordings (the new ones) not fully meeting the rave views they have had on these pages. There is a kind of audible common denominator (hmm… - I guess you must teach on what that is :) Polly) in the Pentatone sound on surprisingly many of their recordings. It’s like a sort of house sound or sound mark perhaps, but I’m afraid I will have to describe it as lacking in low end support in a context of otherwise great clarity and treble smoothness, also somewhat bright in its overall concept. But of course this can be the hall or an artistic decision.

I must be the only person who believes there is room for improvements by Pentatone. Nevertheless this Pentatone release will add on an already estimated budget deficit for September - October this fall. That is a reality! I only wish for a more fuller Brahmsian sound. That will make the financial burden easier to carry!

/Tommy

PS. You know I’ve been told; of all the human senses, hearing is regarded as the one that differ between individuals the most at birth and that differences remain throughout our lives. Don’t ask me to prove it though. Funny to end up talking about impossible topics...

Do you have or have you otherwise listened to the Brahms violin and double concertos disc I referred to ? If you find that lacking in bass, my jaw drops!

Give us an example of a PentaTone that is lacking in bass! I would like to listen to it with that in mind.

Thanks,
Bruce

Post by Edvin August 20, 2007 (10 of 17)
Symphony no 1 timings: Janowski, 15.13, 8.31, 4.30, 16.13. Bychkov, 17.19, 8.46, 5.45, 18.21 (repeats are the same)

As you can see fom the above this is a swift performance and right from the outset there is a sense of haste. The orchestral sound is great, big and beefy with very deep and forward bass. Perhaps the timps could have been clearer, but that may be a result of the hall, I don´t know. In my opinion the opening lacks grandeur because of the fast tempo and the Allegro follows in the same style. Some impressive playing and the end of the movement is wonderfully shaped with a very nice blend of sounds. But it is too fast for comfort as it robs Brahms of some of his majesty and breadth, as well as pure drama. The intensity in Brahms is not heightened by a faster tempo, rather the contrary.

The Andante is lovely with some very fine playing from the solo violine. The third movement is again very swift and the more rustic side is therefore only hinted at. The finale opens in an imposing manner with a sense of expectancy. Not the greatest horn playing I have heard but good anyway. The main tune is gloriously played but I have great difficulty in coming to terms with Janowski´s choice of tempos. After the theme it rushes off again until the theme reappears.
An enjoyable first but not a great one. Bychkov´s recording sounds thinner but the music sounds greater, and I´m not mentioning all the rbcd´s available.

The Haydn variations is a charming piece. Normally that is. Two hesitations in the theme irritates me slightly - this is a simple melody and should be played straight. The variations are again well played but they seriously lack warmth and charm, and melancholy. It is all so extrovert that it is turned into an orchestral spectacular with little feeling.

The sound is one of the best from Pentatone and the sacd is worth buying for that reason alone. State of the art indeed.

I have often questioned the choices made by record companies when it comes to artists. I have heard Janowski before in Messiaen, rushed off his feet, Roussel, not up to Dutoit, and some Bruckner. I have never been impressed and I wasn´t impressed by the Franck/Chausson either. Why this hurry? A Bruckner cycle is to be made in Geneva...well, with his fondness for fast speeds it may not be the best choice of conductor. Let´s wait and see.

By the way, the chief conductor of the Pittsburgh orchestra is Manfred Honeck. Now there´s an interesting musician. I would much rather have his Brahms.

Performance 2.5, sound 4.5

There was no "add review" button on my screen.

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