Post by Jay-dub August 2, 2008 (361 of 453)
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BIS on HDtracks is certainly good news. We'll soon be able to get lossless, DRM-free copies of BIS CD's legally, at a reasonable price and with PDF's of the booklets. And the website looks usable, with recordings from many outstanding labels.
On the HDtracks website is also an announcement that 24bit/96kHz files are coming soon. Does that mean that we'll be able to download Sudbin's Scarlatti or Bezaly's "Nordic Spell" in better-than-CD quality?
When I first heard of HDtracks I was nonplussed by the fact that the service was offering CD quality only and calling itself high resolution. I'm glad to see that the situation is changing. Is there any chance that HDtracks could be persuaded to offer surround sound recordings? DTS-CD disk images or DTS WAV files would be the practical file formats for now.
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Post by Beagle August 3, 2008 (362 of 453)
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On another current (and wildly off-topic) thread, /showthread/29209//y?page=last, Theresa expresses a strong preference for listening only to composers who are on SACD. Well Sibelius is certainly here (on SACD), his symphonies are well represented, as are some concertos, suites, works for piano and theatre music. But his exquisite String Quartets are not -- and it looks like it was a near miss, since BIS did issue a redbook CD a year ago which David Hurwitz found quite praisworthy: http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11126. How long must we wait, Theresa?
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Post by andrewb August 18, 2008 (363 of 453)
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For Bissie:
Are there any further releases planned in the stereo single layer SACD format?
I had thought that the two Mendelssohn discs might be the last, but now we have news of a very welcome Dowland disc. Are sales of these older recordings on stereo SACD suggesting that more releases may be worthwhile? I hope so.
The Mendelssohn concerto SACD stereo disc has substantially better sound than the RBCD disc set, I own both and so can do a direct comparison. The amount of improvement surprised me, much more detail and a more refined sound from the instruments.
There are lots in the BIS catalogue that seem to be suitable and meet the copyright restrictions that you said were an obstacle to the issue of recordings of recent composers in this format. Perhaps the Nielsen symphonies (either Chung,Jarvi or Vanska) as I think Nielsen is just out of copyright.
Also there are the Gade or Glazunov symphonies, or the Brautigam Haydn solo piano series which could be issued on perhaps four single layer stereo SACDs.
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Post by Chris August 18, 2008 (364 of 453)
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As a photographer I travel for sometimes six months or more every year.
So far I have had to be content with ripped RBCDs when travelling.
And it has always been a real relief when I come home again and can finally listen to the hi rez layer of the SACDs I´ve bought abroad.
But now I have recently downloaded some hi rez testfiles from 2l that even with the onboard soundcard in my Macbook Pro,but of course with a separate headphone amp connected, sound clearly better than anything I´ve been able to hear via i-Tunes before.
i-Tunes supports 24/96 and if one connects an external DAC it sets the limits.
Lets face it, with some exceptions most recordings we listen to these days have been recorded via a computer anyway.
Why not skip the rotating discs and go straight back to the source.
There has been some talk here and elsewhere about harddrive failure and things like that .
But I back up all my files anyway on at least three different drives so I don´t find that a major issue against downloads as such.
I certainly hope that both BIS ,Pentatone , and Reference Recordings will offer at least 24/ 88,2/96 files, anything less than that would be cheating and false marketing.
CD quality simply isn´t hi rez !
I haven´t got the SACDs of any of the testfiles from 2L so I can´t really compare.
But to my ears especially Beethoven´s last piano sonata sounds pretty good in the 24/96 Flac version I downloaded.
I know it has been released as an SACD and would be interested to hear if anyone here has made any comparisons between the different hi rez testfiles and the SACD.
Like Bissie himself said no long ago "We´re not married to SACD"
Nor am I, but it serves me well at home.
The real limitation for me has been the lack of portability
I for one, would really like to be able to listen to SACD quality music on my Macbook Pro even when in a hotelroom in Bombay or wherever I happen to be.
Ideally I´d like the highest sample DSD format as downloads but that probably won´t happen anytime soon, if ever.
All I really want, is to be able to listen to great music as well performed and recorded as possible.
And if hi rez downloads can deliver that at a reasonable price I´m onboard.
Right now I´m looking for an external, preferably battery powered DAC, for the next step up in computer audio.
The main problem so far seems to be lack of sites offering good music, and pricing!
Another problem for many, though not me any longer, 62mb/sec down and 20mb up, might be Internet connections.
I find the Linn hi rez downloads RIDICULOUSLY overpriced compared to the physical discs.
I paid 11 Pounds for the recent Mozart set of two Discs but the download is more than twice that!
It ought to be cheaper than the discs, not more expensive!
No printing of covers. No pressing of DISCS. No physical distribution system needed.
They´re a rip off!
Lets hope Bissie doesn´t let us down filesize wise or price wise.
Their recordings are after all, some of the very best on the market so why offer them in less than that quality just because they will be downloads!
Cheers Chris
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Post by bissie August 20, 2008 (365 of 453)
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andrewb said:
For Bissie:
Are there any further releases planned in the stereo single layer SACD format?
I had thought that the two Mendelssohn discs might be the last, but now we have news of a very welcome Dowland disc. Are sales of these older recordings on stereo SACD suggesting that more releases may be worthwhile? I hope so.
The Mendelssohn concerto SACD stereo disc has substantially better sound than the RBCD disc set, I own both and so can do a direct comparison. The amount of improvement surprised me, much more detail and a more refined sound from the instruments.
There are lots in the BIS catalogue that seem to be suitable and meet the copyright restrictions that you said were an obstacle to the issue of recordings of recent composers in this format. Perhaps the Nielsen symphonies (either Chung,Jarvi or Vanska) as I think Nielsen is just out of copyright.
Also there are the Gade or Glazunov symphonies, or the Brautigam Haydn solo piano series which could be issued on perhaps four single layer stereo SACDs.
Dear Andrew,
We now have the 2 Mendelssohn discs, the Dowland and the 5-for-2 Bach Complete organ set. You are absolutely right that there is much more that would come in handy (but some Nielsen is still in copyright in the USA), but I am now watching what happens with these. So far the results haven't really been that positive - perhaps people just don't know about them or else the SACD player owners will not go for 16/44,1.
I am afraid that I cannot follow your reasoning about the different sound quality of the Mendelssohn discs. The digital contents is identical. The difference in sound quality must either be the fact that the PCM signal was transferred into DSD for the SACD or then you may have different players with different D/A converters.
Best - Robert
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Post by andrewb August 20, 2008 (366 of 453)
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bissie said:
Dear Andrew,
We now have the 2 Mendelssohn discs, the Dowland and the 5-for-2 Bach Complete organ set. You are absolutely right that there is much more that would come in handy (but some Nielsen is still in copyright in the USA), but I am now watching what happens with these. So far the results haven't really been that positive - perhaps people just don't know about them or else the SACD player owners will not go for 16/44,1.
I am afraid that I cannot follow your reasoning about the different sound quality of the Mendelssohn discs. The digital contents is identical. The difference in sound quality must either be the fact that the PCM signal was transferred into DSD for the SACD or then you may have different players with different D/A converters.
Best - Robert
Thanks for the update Robert.
Definitely seem to hear an improvement on my system, even when trying to allowing for "placebo effects" and so on. Maybe it is my Sony player and amp which are connected by an ilink - the SACD signal is transferred as DSD and handled as such, while the RBCD signal is transferred as PCM, so the handling will be different.
I had thought that the conversion from the original tapes to DSD had allowed more information to be retained than in the original transfer for RBCD, but maybe I am wrong there.
One thing I do criticise is the package labelling on the Mendelssohn discs: there is no track listing on the back of the case or booklet, hence one has to fiddle the booklet out of the tabs to find this information. As the Mendelssohn concerto RBCD discs have the track listing on the back of the case, I would have thought the SACD case could have done also.
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Post by Jay-dub August 20, 2008 (367 of 453)
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I agree with Chris about the proper prices for downloads. Linn, AIX, and 2L are all offering hi-rez downloads on their websites for prices considerably higher than the SACD's and DVD-A's that they sell. They can't be expecting to sell very many copies of these US$30-40 downloads. I see it more as a way of expressing their commitment to issuing the very best possible product. Those who buy the downloads must be people who absolutely must have the best, regardless of cost, and do not want to devote space to music storage. At least the AIX website (itrax.com) also offers DTS-CD versions of their surround albums. If they were priced a few dollars lower, I'd buy some.
So far, of the high-quality download sites, only Chesky's HDTracks appears to be priced to sell many copies. It will be interesting to see how the site expands. I think that Chesky made a good decision to build up a download service at CD-quality and wait on hi-rez and surround downloads (more interesting, but less universally compatible) until the site is running smoothly. Incidentally, I see that 2L has contracted to make its albums available on both Itrax and HDtracks.
As for overlong stereo SACD's, I'm afraid I don't see the point. The future of compact music storage is in hard-drive servers. From that point of view, I'd rather have the Mendelssohn CD boxes than the SACD's. That way, if I ever decide to rip my music collection, I'll be able to.
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Post by Daland August 20, 2008 (368 of 453)
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Jay-dub said:
I agree with Chris about the proper prices for downloads.
This site is about SACDs, not about downloads. I have yet to meet a genuine classical music lover who thinks downloads are the answer to his or her hi-rez needs. I don't want to see another thread "hi-jacked" by people who are not really interested in high-quality recordings.
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Post by Jay-dub August 20, 2008 (369 of 453)
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Since BIS multichannel recordings are currently SACD-exclusive, I consider this forum an ideal place to engage in public discourse with their general manager on the subject of how to market multichannel (and hi-rez) assets.
I think there is a place for downloads. In particular, there is practically no chance that EMI or Universal Classics will begin issuing a lot more SACD's. The high cost of SACD manufacture has forced BIS to issue their Grieg budget box in stereo-only. Anything that serves to increase the market presence of multichannel music will be good for SACD.
Daland, my SACD library may not be as large as yours, but I defy you to look through the titles and tell me that the person who bought them is not really interested in high-quality recordings.
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Post by raffells August 20, 2008 (370 of 453)
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Daland said:
This site is about SACDs, not about downloads. I have yet to meet a genuine classical music lover who thinks downloads are the answer to his or her hi-rez needs. I don't want to see another thread "hi-jacked" by people who are not really interested in high-quality recordings.
THE FUTURE of Hirez IS DOWNLOADS whether you like it or not.Also whether you meet them or not.
You can live in denial but the decision on how music will be purchased has already been decided by the masses.
Industry will have little choice but to follow.
Whether any downloader wants to corrupt the purity of digital downloads and transfer it onto optical based playback systems with all their inherent problems from lazer scatter ,jitter, error correction and all the other impurities in the chain is obviously a choice.
As there is no consistency in volume levels,especially in sacd then PCM does have a great advantage in that releatively cheap progs can be used to "correct" this problem which obviously effects some of the people on this site.
ie hardening up and glaze on the violins which is usually a headroom problem on some older or poorer designs.
Wheras I will continue to buy sacds to fill in my "music" library Im afraid I consider that the only way forward or even to standstill and survive for high def will be downloads.
Dave
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