Thread: Best surround sound recording list?

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Post by GregFNC January 18, 2007 (11 of 21)
Polly Nomial said:

Agreed but this is much, much more exciting musically: Berlioz: Requiem - Norrington

Out of the Tacet recordings that, as others have suggested, make extensive use of the surround channels, I can recommend these on musical grounds as well:
Bach: Brandenburg Concertos - Stuttgart Chamber Orchester
Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8 - Rajski

From a recording point of view, this Coronation of King George II - King's Consort/Robert King is good but some of the chants are a little underwhelming and quite stilted.
East meets West - Les Percussions de Strasbourg is quite extraordinary but not easy listening.
Gabrieli: Music for San Rocco - McCreesh is very good musically but I find the sound (attacking you from all sides) harsh.
Mozart: The Marriage of Figaro - René Jacobs makes very good use of the surrounds at times and is a wonderful performance.
For the choral singer in you Greg, try this: Tallis: Spem in Alium - The Sixteen which is simply wonderful; as is this: Immortal Nystedt - Ensemble96

I'd like to thank everyone for their recommendations. I'll investigate as many as I can. I'd also like to thank everyone for their consideration of my opinions. I really can't get with the ambient rear speaker arguments and from my experiences in concert halls around the country (including Boston's Symphony Hall), I don't feel that the sound in the audience comes anywhere close to the excitement and beauty generated by actually being in the middle of the music making. SACD has the capability of both perspectives and I hope a number of producers will explore the full capabilities of the system.

It occurs to me that it is the openness of the sound in the concert hall that makes the audience experience exceptional. I wonder if anyone has tried a system of having 4 or more front speakers at different levels in the listening room and if this would produce a more "open" sound.

Post by Rudy A-Traxx January 18, 2007 (12 of 21)
GregFNC said:
[...]
I'd love to have some choral recordings where there is each voice part comes out of different channels! Are there any?

Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC

Concerning choral recordings, avoid THE GENTS : "In love..."

I'm also looking for the same kind of surround mixes than you're looking for and this one is what I don't want. When we once listened to the DTS 5.1 DEMO CD (1999) Volume 1 featuring Yesterday by Boyz II Men, you become upset when you listen to one I mentionned above...

Post by Rudy A-Traxx January 18, 2007 (13 of 21)
GregFNC said:

Are there any lists of the best multi-channel surround sound recordings?
[...]
The only SACD recording that I've bought so far that I've found really thrilling is the Bernstein West Side Story where all the channels are used. (I'll soon have the Davis recording of Tosca on Pentatone where I understand the orchestra is presented using all of the channels and I'm looking forward to it!)
[...]
If there isn't a list, which SACD recordings do members of this forum think has the best surround sound?

Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC

I'm glad you started this post, I have the same problem.

Out of the first 40 SACD I bought for the past six months, two or three are pure demos for me :
DR CHESKY's 5.1 SURROUND SHOW Dr. Chesky's 5.1 Surround Show, DEPECHE MODE "Violator" Depeche Mode: Violator and for fun because this is nature sounds and so well done "THUNDERSTORM a surround sound experience" Dan Gibson: Thunderstorm.

I think you could read the reviews about them in this website. I chose them because they are what I think what Multichannel mix should be (for me) : You're on the stage not in front of it... Moreover in theses three SACD if you have a sound that comes clearly from a speaker, it is still completely integrated in the mix and is not there just to be there...

Post by synthy January 18, 2007 (14 of 21)
GregFNC said:

I'd love to have some choral recordings where there is each voice part comes out of different channels! Are there any?

If there isn't a list, which SACD recordings do members of this forum think has the best surround sound?

TIA,

Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC

XL, Choral Works for 40 Voices - Halsey
Biber: Missa Christi Resurgentis - Manze

As for choral recordings, these ones are pretty enveloping. XL has a different layout almost for each work, and there are indeed different voice sections in different channels. There's even a diagram of the positioning inside. I find the performances generally very good, and I think the multi-channel is a bit better than Polly Nomial rates it, although I largely agree with him. He's right about Spem in alium not being up to the Sixteen's or Magnificat's performance.

The Biber disc has most of the instruments and continuo up front, with the small choir and soloists in the rear. Great disc as well.

Post by hanser January 19, 2007 (15 of 21)
Greg,

I understand exactly your position! I have played violin in large orchestras as well as in chamber groups, and when in 2001 I discovered the first Tacet Real Surrund Recording with the Mendelssohn String Octet, with the players all around you, I had the feeling, I would play the piece myself (as I have already). I love this approach expecially in Chamber music and in antiphonal vocal music.
On the other hand, a well recorded "ambience only" recording can also be very satisfying (but not as involving).

Post by akiralx January 19, 2007 (16 of 21)
GregFNC said:

But to defend my position, it isn't at all unusual for orchestras to stage brass choirs around an auditorium to give a multi-dimensional effect. And as one who sings in a large choir and has performed large choral works in the midst of the choir in very close proximity to the orchestra, I can attest how exciting surround sound can be in concert on a regular basis.

Personally, I feel the audience member receiving the sound in basically a 2 dimensional format is missing out on much of the drama and excitement of the music. While not trying to be put anyone down, I do think it is easier to assimilate in that format.

Greg Fitzmaurice
Durham, NC

Well, I would say that apart from Berlioz's Requiem and Mahler's Resurrection Symphony (and maybe Stockhausen's Gruppen), there are few mainstream classical works where the performers aren't just on the stage in front of the audience - and this is what multichannel SACD replicates. Can you give me some examples of these works with brass choirs around an auditorium?

I think what you're trying to replicate is the experience of being one of the performers actually on the stage, but that's not really being a listener. Excessive rear channel signal is one thing I really hate as it sounds so unnatural. That's why I've never bought any of the Tacet titles.

Try Beethoven: Complete Sonatas & Variations - Wispelwey, Lazic for what multichannel SACD can really achieve in terms of natural involving sound. Certainly not 2-dimensional.

Post by Windsurfer January 19, 2007 (17 of 21)
GregFNC said:
I really can't get with the ambient rear speaker arguments and from my experiences in concert halls around the country (including Boston's Symphony Hall), I don't feel that the sound in the audience comes anywhere close to the excitement and beauty generated by actually being in the middle of the music making. SACD has the capability of both perspectives and I hope a number of producers will explore the full capabilities of the system.

I would suggest that for you the excitement of feeling you are part of the performance rather than a member of the audience for which the performance exists is paramount. I have further ideas concerning this issue which I already expressed in a former post - because I cannot seem to link to that from here I am excerpting some of what I said:

As to entering the stage area, there are at least a couple things I find unpleasant about that. In his narration of the DVD "Art of the Violin" Itzhak Perlman speaks about (my spelling of this may be incorrect) zzzzhhhht noise. It is a noise made by the rosin on the string and is an artifact of the playing of the violin, probably also the viola, cello and string bass. I took violin lessons many years ago from a fellow who, 10 years older than I, was also a student. He was preparing the Chaconne from the Partita #2 (Bach) for a recital and he played a little for me during one of my lessons. I objected to the harshness of sound and also the sound of one string hitting the fingerboard. He assured me that in the audience, no one would hear that sound. At his recital I was about midway into the hall and he was right! None of that unpleasant character I complained about in the practice room was evident where I was seated in the recital hall! Had I been on stage I bet it well would have been and my enjoyment of the piece would have been severely curtailed.

My wife and I enjoy concerts in Boston's Symphony Hall. She wants to see everything and so sits in the first balcony overlooking the stage. She on occassion has sat with me in the center 2nd balcony, the first row of which is maybe 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the way back in the hall. She admits the sound there is much more beautiful than where she sits where she allows that it can be somewhat shrill in loud passages...and yes I have sat up where she sits and while I can see everything the conductor or soloist does, the sound is not even close to the beauty I experience in my regular seat.

Being right down on the stage would be even worse. A performance is for the audience, not for the people on the stage. In order to come across well into a 2500 person audience, the performers must play louder, inducing a tilt toward higher harmonics than they would otherwise. These higher harmonics get dispersed (diffracted) and absorbed in the hall yielding a much more lovely sound than can be experienced at the stage.

(I would be curious to know what Marianne Thorsen thinks about these comments.)

BTW many musicians are wearing earplugs to prevent hearing loss associated with performing in an orchestra. A bassoon player in the National Symphony (Washington DC, USA) used to be an equipment reviewer for Stereophile, then he mentioned that he sat in front of the trombone section! What a howl from the subscribership! No one trusts his ears anymore.

Post by fafnir January 19, 2007 (18 of 21)
The Channel Classics recording of Rachmaninov's 2nd Symphony is an excellent example of a recording made from the aural point of view of the conductor. Ivan Fischer, the conductor, in the SACD booklet writes that he requested the producer to record using the conductor's perspective. He was willing to forgo the blending and resonance of the hall to achieve the greater clarity that he hears at the podium. The producer enthusiastically complied (also as noted in the booklet) and a photograph of the 5-mic setup in front of the conductor is included.

The result is quite a good recording (and a fine performance also), but very interestingly, subsequent recording that I have heard from Fischer on Channel Classics seem to have a more conventional perspective. They are also excellent if somewhat different from the Rach and, IMHO, in the case of Mahler 2nd Symphony, a true phonographic classic.

Perhaps in the best scenario, a recording should have both the clarity and ambiance that can come from capturing the performance in mch, even if it requires an occasional extra mic.

Post by terence January 20, 2007 (19 of 21)
fafnir said:

The Harmonia Mundi recording of Stravinsky Les Noces makes fabulous use of the rear channels.

on the same disc there's a superb reading of the Mass, with wind instruments mainly to the rear speakers and voices to the front. it works beautifully. as fafnir says, a fab disc.

Post by Rudy A-Traxx January 27, 2007 (20 of 21)
I can add : Dire Straits : Brothers in arms. Rich envelopping surrounds

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