Post by Peter May 28, 2006 (11 of 23)
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zeus said:
I once heard some Monteverdi sung in a church in Venice (can't remember which) sitting in the choir with the performers arranged above and around the audience. The decay of the voices into the far reaches of the church was magical.
Ditto in Westminster Cathedral. As you say, magical.
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Edvin said:
I find this recording far to reverberant. A lot of detail is lost in wash of sound and the opening lacks bite because of the generous accoustic. What fascinates me most about Monteverdi is his use of dissonance, and with this kind of recording they hardly register. The performance is lacking in sheer gusto, quite nice on its own but rather uneventful.
Edvin
The performance space that Monteverdi would have written for has a very long echo - the wash of sound is just that (I was in St Marks for Easter and it is very beautiful with a very resonant accoustic) and I think that this is appropriate for Monteverdi and IMHO works very well here. As to whether you like the performance, well this is always a matter of taste... A lot of the time I completely agree with you, sometimes we couldn't be further apart!
Regards
PN
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Post by Edvin May 28, 2006 (13 of 23)
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To hear this wonderful music performed in the places you describe must have been great experiences.
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Post by terence August 23, 2006 (14 of 23)
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how much use is made of rear channels in this recording, and what for?
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Post by Masolino August 25, 2006 (15 of 23)
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I see most here understood this piece as written for St. Mark's in Venice. Not so. Monteverdi published it in Venice but wrote the music in Mantua (where churches were quite a bit smaller) when he was still in the service of the Gonzagas. In any case, the composer's original title page reads: "Mass in six voices/for church choirs/and Vespers for multiple voices/with several sacred concertos suitable for the Chapels or Chambers of Princes..." So there is always the question whether the vespers themselves were necessarily inteded to be performed in large, very resonant spaces (e.g. a church like St Mark's), or do they also work great in the private chapels or halls in the mansion of a nobleman or an archibishop as some sort of chaste entertainment. Contrary to the prevalent taste, I have found that this work makes most sense to me musically in soloistic setups (i.e. one performer per vocal/instrumental part) which fit Monteverdi's description perfectly, too. Most recently Rinaldo Alessandrini has made a recording of the Vespers this way.
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Post by nickc August 26, 2006 (16 of 23)
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terence said:
how much use is made of rear channels in this recording, and what for?
hi terence
just ambience from what i can recall - but it does sound fantastic in MC
cheers
nick
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Post by beardawgs January 17, 2008 (17 of 23)
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Masolino said:
I see most here understood this piece as written for St. Mark's in Venice. Not so. Monteverdi published it in Venice but wrote the music in Mantua (where churches were quite a bit smaller) when he was still in the service of the Gonzagas. In any case, the composer's original title page reads: "Mass in six voices/for church choirs/and Vespers for multiple voices/with several sacred concertos suitable for the Chapels or Chambers of Princes..." So there is always the question whether the vespers themselves were necessarily inteded to be performed in large, very resonant spaces (e.g. a church like St Mark's), or do they also work great in the private chapels or halls in the mansion of a nobleman or an archibishop as some sort of chaste entertainment. Contrary to the prevalent taste, I have found that this work makes most sense to me musically in soloistic setups (i.e. one performer per vocal/instrumental part) which fit Monteverdi's description perfectly, too. Most recently Rinaldo Alessandrini has made a recording of the Vespers this way.
As far as I know, there is no conclusive evidence that Vespro 1610 was performed in its present form during the Monteverdi’s lifetime. Most of the music was written in Mantua, but as far as performances went, some sections were performed individually, maybe in different combinations, other probably not at all. Multiple choral and orchestral writing and many echo effects were the usual practice of the period, regardless of where the music is to be performed. Duo Seraphim wasn’t even meant to be part of the 1610 collection, it was apparently last minute Monteverdi’s addition due to the sheer beauty of the piece that would otherwise probably got lost. In those days it was very expensive to publish one’s music, and composers would more often than not cramp as much music as possible in the single published volume that would easily span many decades.
Savall recorded his Vespro in Mantuan Basilica Santa Barbara thus coming as close to the intended performing space as possibly probable. I would argue that any performing practice is suitable for this kind of music – one per part in smaller places, en mass huge forces in large churches. There is no definite performing practice here – when Monteverdi knew how large forces he could count on while writing Orfeo he made sure to mark in the score who’s playing what. Isn’t that a beauty of performing early music – there is no definite performance, many different approaches offer different views and understanding of the same music. That’s why I won’t be choosing either Savall, Alessandrini, Gardiner or King for my favourite Vespro 1610.
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Post by Peter January 17, 2008 (18 of 23)
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beardawgs said:
As far as I know, there is no conclusive evidence that Vespro 1610 vas performed in its present form during the Monteverdi’s lifetime.
I have read recently that this is correct - it never was - and I'll try to find the references.
However, there is no need to listen to all of them at one sitting either if you don't want to! I usually feel unable to press STOP.
PS Does what you said above mean you have lots of favourite performances of the Vespers?
Peter
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Post by Peter January 17, 2008 (19 of 23)
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I note what you said about Robert King in your review, and can vouch for the feeling by some at the time that Hyperion remove his CDs from sale.
Trial and sentence by judge and jury is society's way of removing kangaroo courts and punishment from the common herd. When he has served his sentence I hope he will be allowed to have the slate if not wiped clean totally, at least allowed to work at what he does best. Does the punishment have to continue, after the sentence has been served, until Death?
Peter
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Post by beardawgs January 17, 2008 (20 of 23)
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Peter said:
Does what you said above mean you have lots of favourite performances of the Vespers?
Peter
Well, life would be easy, wouldn’t it my dear Peter if we could have just one favourite performance of our cherished music. How can I choose between Gardiner through whom I discovered Vespro many years ago, how can I ignore Alessandrini whom I’ve heard live and who swiped me off my feet with his energy, or not bow to Savall who still sounds 20 years on as if he’s discovering this music afresh or refuse to indulge all my senses in King’s recording which… well, you red the review. Any more? Well, bring them on – this is the excitement of discovering what any artist can bring new to a well known piece of music.
I’m not saying this will work for everything I listen to, but I have few of my special pieces of music and most of the time I find it difficult to decide which performance to play. As I said, how life would be easy if we could simply chose one reference recording, stick to it and dismiss all the others. But then, we wouldn’t be chatting and defending our arguments to each other on here.
Nesh
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