Thread: Caro Mitis

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Post by hiredfox September 6, 2015 (11 of 47)
I hope Misha still visits and can join this discussion so he can explain the situation. His most recent commentary suggested things were becoming extremely tough financially for them. I can't quite see why downloading would be a cheaper alternative to SACD disc as most of the cost surely is upstream to that?

Post by tailspn September 6, 2015 (12 of 47)
hiredfox said:

I hope Misha still visits and can join this discussion so he can explain the situation. His most recent commentary suggested things were becoming extremely tough financially for them. I can't quite see why downloading would be a cheaper alternative to SACD disc as most of the cost surely is upstream to that?

Hi John,

Physical media still predominates classical music, but today's declining retail distribution, especially brick and mortar, is making it more difficult to continue investing in new projects.

Most labels, especially those without their own distribution, over time receive about 28% of the customer purchasing price, when they get paid. For that, they have to pay all the production expenses, artists royalties, mechanicals, and up front, SACD or CD production costs. For SACD's, that's about 1.5 Euro out of the 6 Euro they eventually get, if their distributor pays. Distributors are not thieves, they're just not receiving payment from the declining retailers.

Downloads amount to a fraction of the total classical music sales, but the labels return is more like 60%. For those that eschew downloads of classical music, please understand that without some form of income stream, there's no more music recording.

Post by Euell Neverno September 6, 2015 (13 of 47)
tailspn said:

Hi John,

Physical media still predominates classical music, but today's declining retail distribution, especially brick and mortar, is making it more difficult to continue investing in new projects.

Most labels, especially those without their own distribution, over time receive about 28% of the customer purchasing price, when they get paid. For that, they have to pay all the production expenses, artists royalties, mechanicals, and up front, SACD or CD production costs. For SACD's, that's about 1.5 Euro out of the 6 Euro they eventually get, if their distributor pays. Distributors are not thieves, they're just not receiving payment from the declining retailers.

Downloads amount to a fraction of the total classical music sales, but the labels return is more like 60%. For those that eschew downloads of classical music, please understand that without some form of income stream, there's no more music recording.

Tom, while I appreciate your comment, it may be too early to conclude the sky is falling, inasmuch as SACD and audio blu-ray disk production still seems to be on a roll.

Post by bmoura September 6, 2015 (14 of 47)
Iain said:

Perhaps both sides can peacefully coexist! :)

Actually, the only way I will be purchasing any type of audio media from this point is via download, as I just don't have the shelf space to give up to physical audio media.

My latest acquisition is:
The Argentinian Album - Thompson

... via Native DSD, which went quite well. Once you log on and complete your order, that web page graphically shows order progression in 4-5 steps until the order is complete. Takes < 5 minutes until your order is ready for download.

Well done, Native DSD.com.

Agreed. It's another choice and a good one.

And speaking of Native DSD, be sure to check out the Complimentary DSD Downloads available to purchasers. The current one is by Lavinia Meijer performing a Philip Glass composition in your choice of DSD Stereo or DSD Multichannel - or both. Very nice!

Post by bmoura September 6, 2015 (15 of 47)
tailspn said:

Physical media still predominates classical music, but today's declining retail distribution, especially brick and mortar, is making it more difficult to continue investing in new projects.

I'm seeing that every time I visit the local Best Buy. The section for Music CDs, DVD Videos and Blu Ray Videos keeps shrinking and shrinking. Not a good sign for CD, DVD Video and Blu Ray Video fans.

Post by tailspn September 6, 2015 (16 of 47)
Euell Neverno said:

Tom, while I appreciate your comment, it may be too early to conclude the sky is falling, inasmuch as SACD and audio blu-ray disk production still seems to be on a roll.

The sky is falling for many independent labels, especially classical selling music without a large following. The SACD's produced today are mostly retreads of old recordings, where the production costs are trivial. Have you not noticed the diminishing number of newly recorded projects compared to just a few years ago? Much less than half.

I explained above why labels are seeking alternative avenues of distribution of their recordings. They're in the recording business, not the record business. That's just the present delivery modality, and not one very supportive of the labels.

Post by GROOT GELUID September 7, 2015 (17 of 47)
Euell Neverno said:

Tom, while I appreciate your comment, it may be too early to conclude the sky is falling, inasmuch as SACD and audio blu-ray disk production still seems to be on a roll.

I am afraid that it is not too early. There is a decline in sales and points of sale of physical media; CDís SA-CDís and DVDís and Blu-rays too. 15 years ago there were about 80 to 90 classical cd shops in the Netherlands and now just a hand full, and I presume it is not so different anywhere else.

Native DSD, and primephonic are started to initiate distribution channels towards the quality driven consumer in classical music, and it is a strategy to be ready for a time when there will be hardly any physical media sales anymore.

There is also a growth in the available technology of DSD and high resolution PCM computer audio based DACís that make the playing of high resolution files a serious alternative to playing SA-CDís. That is where the development of equipment manufacturers is and that is where the future of media playback also is, whether it be streaming or playing back downloaded files.

By the way; the whole Caro Mitis catalog is also for sale as downloads (all the major formats, DSD and PCM included) on primephonic.

Post by tailspn September 7, 2015 (18 of 47)
Yeah, but ours look prettier ;)

Thanks for your comments Erdo.

Tom

Post by Euell Neverno September 7, 2015 (19 of 47)
tailspn said:

The sky is falling for many independent labels, especially classical selling music without a large following. The SACD's produced today are mostly retreads of old recordings, where the production costs are trivial. Have you not noticed the diminishing number of newly recorded projects compared to just a few years ago? Much less than half.

Actually, I had not noticed. That we still have many new SACD and blu-ray recordings, other than so-called retreads, certainly suggests to me that the market for disks is far from disappearing at this point in time. It may well be that downloads are the future, but that future is not quite here yet. And, while a portion of the market undoubtedly will gladly accept such change, a substantial portion will remain resistant. The classical recording market has always been buoyed by a limited number of collectors. Downloads may satisfy the acquisitive nature of some collectors, but others likely will continue to prefer the tangibility of a disk to the intangible nature of a file. Just sayin'

Post by Euell Neverno September 7, 2015 (20 of 47)
GROOT GELUID said:

I am afraid that it is not too early. There is a decline in sales and points of sale of physical media; CDís SA-CDís and DVDís and Blu-rays too. 15 years ago there were about 80 to 90 classical cd shops in the Netherlands and now just a hand full, and I presume it is not so different anywhere else.

Probably not, but consumers are adjusting to ordering over the internet. Bricks and mortar stores are succumbing to web enterprises in many areas of retail, not just music.

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