Thread: You have been warned...

Posts: 28
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Post by fausto K February 16, 2015 (1 of 28)
If one is to believe /showthread/128381/128402/y#128402 (post 5/16), it appears that all these titles below (most of them pre-digital, and all of them pre-high res) and myriad more are utterly pointless (bar the occasional multichannel, if you're so inclined). If you listen to stereo only or if the SACD is stereo-only, stick to the CD (if they exist), as there is no more content on these SACDs than on their CD counterparts. Despite all these SACDs sounding incredible in stereo (bar a few, perhaps), according to "the hard measurable facts", guess what...they don't (or at least not ANY better than the CD)! If you think otherwise, you've got cloth ears. We've been duped on a cosmic scale! Let's dump all these and many more.

Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra etc. - Reiner
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra, Miraculous Mandarin - Boulez
The Beach Boys: Pet Sounds
Beethoven, Bruch: Violin Concertos - Grumiaux
Beethoven: String Quartets Op. 18 No. 6, Op. 59 No. 1 - Quartetto Italiano
Beethoven: String Quartets Op. 59 Nos. 2 & 3 - Quartetto Italiano
Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7 - Kleiber
Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 - Kleiber
Schoenberg, Berg, Webern - Karajan
Big Star: #1 Record/Radio City
Bruckner: Symphony No. 3 - Kubelik
Bruckner: Symphony No. 4 - Böhm
Bruckner: Symphony No. 4 - Wand
Bruckner: Symphony No. 7 - Wand
Bruckner: Symphonies Nos. 8 & 9 - Schuricht
Bruckner: Symphony No. 8 - Böhm
Bruckner: Symphony No. 9 - Wand
Bryan Ferry: Boys & Girls
Can: Can
Can: Ege Bamyasi
Can: Flow Motion
Can: Future Days
Can: Landed
Can: Monster Movie
Can: Rite Time
Can: Saw Delight
Can: Soon Over Babaluma
Can: Soundtracks
Can: Tago Mago
Can: Unlimited Edition
Dead Can Dance: Aion
Dead Can Dance: Dead Can Dance
Dead Can Dance: Spleen and Ideal
Dead Can Dance: The Serpent's Egg
Dead Can Dance: Within the Realm of a Dying Sun
Debussy: Orchestral Works - Haitink
Depeche Mode: Music For The Masses
Dire Straits: Brothers in Arms
Genesis: Invisible Touch
Gershwin: Rhapsody in Blue - Fiedler
The Grateful Dead: American Beauty
The Grateful Dead: Workingman's Dead
John Coltrane: Blue Train
John Coltrane: Coltrane
John Coltrane: My Favorite Things
Mahler: Symphony No. 5 - Haitink
Mahler: Symphony No. 8 - Haitink
Miles Davis: Bitches Brew
Miles Davis: Bitches Brew
Miles Davis: Dark Magus
Miles Davis: In A Silent Way
Miles Davis: In A Silent Way
Miles Davis: Live-Evil
Miles Davis: On The Corner
Nick Drake: A Treasury
Peter Gabriel: Passion - The Last Temptation of Christ
Peter Gabriel: Plays Live (Highlights)
Peter Gabriel: Security
Peter Gabriel: So
Peter Gabriel: Us
Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon
Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here
Pixies: Bossanova
Pixies: Doolittle
Pixies: Surfer Rosa
Pixies: Trompe Le Monde
Boulez Conducts Ravel
Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe - Munch
Boulez Conducts Ravel
Roxy Music: Avalon
Roxy Music: Roxy Music
Roxy Music: Stranded
Roxy Music: For Your Pleasure
Schubert: Die schöne Müllerin - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
Schubert: Schwanengesang - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
Schubert: Winterreise - Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau
Simple Minds: Once Upon a Time
Steely Dan: Aja
Steely Dan: Gaucho
Richard Strauss: Also sprach Zarathustra, Ein Heldenleben - Reiner
Stravinsky: Le Sacre du Printemps - Boulez
Toto: Toto IV
The Plastic People of the Universe: Egon Bondy's Happy Hearts Club Banned

Post by samayoeruorandajin February 16, 2015 (2 of 28)
Amon Ra doesn't have a clue.

Post by Polly Nomial February 16, 2015 (3 of 28)
The Pentatone discs are putting quad releases out - no CD can provide this playback facility.

However, it is not obvious why any analogue master from (say) the 1960s should be better preserved (irrespective of the quality of the actual recording itself) than any digital recording.

Therefore I sit on the fence or, perhaps more accurately, on both sides of the fence. Yes - it's uncomfortable!

Post by fausto K February 16, 2015 (4 of 28)
just to be clear: I'm not claiming that anything *recorded* on analogue tape is better than anything *recorded* digital, even redbook digital. Far from it.
What I find disputable is AmonRa's repeated claim that it is pointless to transfer analogue tape to SACD, because its sonic content just doesn't warrant issuing on the SACD format.
The fact is that many (if not all) of the discs I mentioned do sound infinitely better than their redbook counterparts: greater dynamics, more presence, more ambience, more clarity, less if at all fatigue-inducing and so on and so forth. And I'm not alone in this. There must be more to it than AmonRa is claiming are the "hard measurable facts". And I bet he hasn't done any actual comparative listening study for any arbitrary disc I mentioned. Just pointing to a set of measurements on paper won't do.

Post by AmonRa February 16, 2015 (5 of 28)
If the same transfer/master is used for both CD and SACD I see no reason why they would not sound the same. I have never heard or read about a properly conducted double blind test where CD and SACD could be told apart. Even less probable if the used material is much less than RBCD in quality.

The biggest complaint against the Meyer & Moran CD versus SACD test was that most disks were transfers from analog tape which was not good enough to show the clear difference CD and SACD were supposed to have. Then on the other hand (often the same people) demand tape transfers on SACDs because the difference is so easy to hear. Something does not add up.

Naturally wishful thinking CAN actually change the way we hear, that has been noticed in some trials.

Post by Clavicembalisticum February 16, 2015 (6 of 28)
I think the SACD format does not limit or compromise the original recording the way RBCD can, especially if the SACD transfer is via DSD. I own several of the same recordings on both SACD and RBCD, and every one sounds superior on SACD: Warmer, more detailed, greater depth, more ambience, you name it. The differences are far from subtle, too. As far as analog sources go, if it's a pre-1990s PCM, I usually prefer analog, as it sounds warmer and simply more realistic, at least for strings and brass.

Post by rammiepie February 16, 2015 (7 of 28)
And IMHO the most important issue is the playback equipment utilized for playback of the various formats.

AmonRa has been on the rampage about $30 DVD~R transports and how they 'accurately' convey the info to the DACs in PERFECT bit for bit fashion (after all they're only 1s and 0s and any computer can decipher those).

Let AmonRa be content with RBCD.....that's certainly his pergovative but don't be preaching to the masses that RBCD is superior to SACD, DVD~A, BD~A based on some crazy blind tests, et alia, or some cockamamie theories regarding RBCD is good enough for ALL analogue sources.

Has AmonRa ever discussed the brickwall filters affecting RBCD playback above 20khz? Nay and yet analogue has measured frequencies extending to well over 20khz.......

In closing, we are posting on SA~CD.net for a specific reason. We love the format and we love what it can accomplish even with old analogue sources.

As always, To EACH his OWN!

And BE WARNED, AmonRa: If you continue to pursue your anti analogue rants, to quote from Nancy Sinatra/Lee Hazelwood's pop ditty: "These Boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do, and one of these days these boots are going to walk all over YOU!" http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=images+of+these+boots+are+going+to+walk+all+over+you&qpvt=Images+of+these+boots+are+going+to+walk+all+over+you&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=FE85F6FC1D19A20E4DB1FE85F6FC1D19A20E4DB1

BTW, it sounds wonderful on SACD Nancy Sinatra: Super Audio Best from the original ANALOGUE masters!

Post by Lute February 16, 2015 (8 of 28)
Polly Nomial said:

The Pentatone discs are putting quad releases out - no CD can provide this playback facility....

Therefore I sit on the fence or, perhaps more accurately, on both sides of the fence. Yes - it's uncomfortable!

Agreed.

And... With the prices they are charging for the 2-ch stereo only reissues, it might be a good idea to be a little skeptical.

Post by Marpow February 16, 2015 (9 of 28)
rammiepie said:

And BE WARNED, AmonRa: If you continue to pursue your anti analogue rants, to quote from Nancy Sinatra/Lee Hazelwood's pop ditty: "These Boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do, and one of these days these boots are going to walk all over YOU!" http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=images+of+these+boots+are+going+to+walk+all+over+you&qpvt=Images+of+these+boots+are+going+to+walk+all+over+you&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=FE85F6FC1D19A20E4DB1FE85F6FC1D19A20E4DB1

BTW, it sounds wonderful on SACD Nancy Sinatra: Super Audio Best from the original ANALOGUE masters!

Or another quote from Nancy,

You've been a messin where you shouldn't be a messin.

Post by rammiepie February 16, 2015 (10 of 28)
Lute said:

Agreed.

And... With the prices they are charging for the 2-ch stereo only reissues, it might be a good idea to be a little skeptical.

Brett, I have the two disc Pentatone Pinchas Zukerman Bach Brandenburg Concertos 1~6 DGG QUAD SACD reissues Bach: Brandenburg Concertos - Zukerman and in terms of SQ and packaging.....a beautiful presentation.

And under $20....delivered.

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