Thread: Dolby Atmos (for Home Theatre) : Opinions of How It Affects Us—Here

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Post by Wilhelm—Xu Zhong-Rui July 28, 2014 (1 of 57)
Simply, Dolby Atmos will likely feature in most AV Receivers or Pre-amps to come, read for example :
http://www.twice.com/dolby-atmos-av-receivers-speakers-tap/45846

I think it periphery, not core to this site's 5.1 music concerns.

Sure, it's something one should know about :
http://www.whathifi.com/news/dolby-atmos-what-it-how-can-you-get-it

And, origins, http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos.html

Post by Kal Rubinson July 29, 2014 (2 of 57)
Any relevance to music recordings is not apparent.

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 July 29, 2014 (3 of 57)
Kal Rubinson said:

Any relevance to music recordings is not apparent.

Not so fast, Kal. I have not heard it, but one thing Dolby Atmos and the competing Auro 3d systems do offer is discrete height channels, which we lack now. (The MDG 2+2+2 system is too incompatible with all other recordings in hookup requirements to be viable.)

So, the question becomes can the addition of discrete height information to music recordings enhance their realism? I believe it might well do that in a meaningful way to better capture the illusion of being in the concert hall. 2L apparently believes in the possibility and has offered a few Audio BDs that include an Auro 3D format on the disc in addition to conventional Mch versions. This is speculative on their part and it presupposes the availability of Auro decoders in home systems.

It likely will be a long, long struggle over many years to get market acceptance for Atmos/Auro, such that there is a critical mass of suitable playback equipment in homes. And, that process is just beginning now, without any assurance of eventual success. Atmos is still only in a relatively small number of premium movie theaters for people to experience first hand. I envision at least a decade or more before either Atmos or Auro become fully viable in home setups, if they do not flop completely before then or kill each other in a format war. And, of course, the proving ground will be in conjunction with movies and home theater. Music might then follow via downloads or on a new 4K Blu-ray disc, which will eventually appear one of these years. Time will eventually tell, but only after a very long wait.

Post by fredblue July 29, 2014 (4 of 57)
Front height channels, additional side channels and so on are brilliant ideas I reckon, as much for music as movies, anything that enhances the surround soundfield further can only be a good thing..

..though it's a hard enough sell trying to convince wives and partners to live with 5.1.. unless you've a dedicated listening room/home theatre and/or are a singleton, it might be tricky convincing the other half to accommodate even more speakers..

..that said, if the extra speakers can be tucked away in ceiling voids or in walls etc., might not be so intrusive on decor or jangle one's spouse's sensibilities too much.

Be interesting to see if Atmos etc catches on in a domestic setting away from movie theatres.

Can Atmos encoded material be downmixed to say 7.1 or 9.1 and the Atmos effect still prove worthwhile, I wonder, as that's a more likely home scenario than say 22.1 setups etc..?

Post by Kal Rubinson July 29, 2014 (5 of 57)
Sure but there is little indication or none (MDG/2L aside) of any plans to adopt anything more than 5.1 for music. Heck, 5.1 is only grudgingly supported by most labels, 7.1 is rarer and support for new formats is, usually, from adventurous smaller labels. Heck, many of those have even stepped back to stereo only and are only releasing MCH their back-catalog as files.

I am not arguing against this innovation in principle and I did find ATMOS in the theater to be impressive in big and subtle ways. The ATMOS domestic prototype demos have been less so but it is too early to reach any definitive conclusion. Still, it will be an uphill battle to get enough domestic installations to support the movie software and getting enough support to economically justify music releases will be even more difficult. I hope I am wrong.

Post by Iain July 29, 2014 (6 of 57)
21.4 anyone?

BTW, that's 4 discrete LFE channels for string quartets, piano works and (4K releases of Spielberg's "War of the Worlds". *) LOL!!

Where will it all end?

EDIT: *

Post by Fitzcaraldo215 July 29, 2014 (7 of 57)
Iain said:


Where will it all end?

I know, I know. True, there are diminishing returns, and more and more channels do not necessarily add significantly. I can tell you from experience that 7.1 is not significantly better than 5.1. But, the difference here with Atmos/Auro is that we are adding a true, discrete third dimension - height - to what until now has been a two dimensional playback scheme. 7.1 only expanded the existing 5.1 scheme in the same plane, more or less. Some say that 7.1 with additional back channels was a mistake, and that the two additional channels should have been height channels back then. Expanding on an existing dimension with more channels will not have the same impact as adding an entirely new dimension.

In the home, we are probably talking 9.1, adding two ceiling speakers to 7.1. There are already AVRs and prepros with 9.1 or 11.1 or even higher capability, although now they are used mainly for a number of different derived, synthesized schemes in the absence of discretely recorded material. Those synthetic schemes are not worthwhile, in my view, certainly not for music.

"Where will it all end?" I distinctly remember a number of audiophiles with very fine mono systems saying that over 50 years ago in the earliest days of the transition to stereo and even for many years later. Fortunately, the world as we perceive it sonically and visually only has three dimensions, one of which we have ignored and not yet recognized in our audio systems to date. So, we do not have much further to go. We are two thirds of the way there now.

Will adding the height dimension make as big a difference as expanding the two-dimensional, planar playback scheme via multichannel? No, I do not think so. But, I think it will make an improvement that might prove worthwhile. It just might take many years before it comes to fruition so that we can actually hear what it does for music.

Post by windhoek July 29, 2014 (8 of 57)
I've heard a discrete 22.2 channel setup as part of the NHK's Super Hi-Vision AV experience trialled during the 2012 Olympic games, which I saw at the BBC Scotland studios in Glasgow, UK. As I mentioned in a thread I posted at the time, the precision of sound was incredible as it seemed to provide a spectacular 3-dimensional surround sound experience and seemingly able to place a particular sound anywhere within the sound field.

Admittedly, it's not likely to become the next surround sound format for music, but boy it would be amazing if it did. I can imagine a few rock/pop albums being well suited to a 22.2 setup, but perhaps the biggest beneficiary could be a full-scale orchestra; that could provide a fantastic listening experience!

Fwiw, NHK are skipping 4K TV and going straight from HD to 8K and the visuals on the 60" screen were absolutely stunning!

Post by rammiepie July 29, 2014 (9 of 57)
windhoek said:

Admittedly, it's not likely to become the next surround sound format for music, but boy it would be amazing if it did. I can imagine a few rock/pop albums being well suited to a 22.2 setup, but perhaps the biggest beneficiary could be a full-scale orchestra; that could provide a fantastic listening experience!

Fwiw, NHK are skipping 4K TV and going straight from HD to 8K and the visuals on the 60" screen were absolutely stunning!

Sounds like the Movie Studio's push in the 50's (introducing CineRama, Cinemascope and 4.0 sound) to pry the public away from their 13" B&W screens).

I read that 8k would be viable around 2020 but it seems NHK is accelerating the push.

8K and true Dolby Atmos implementation in theaters will certainly pry the home theater crowd away from their current 5.1/2K/4K set~ups. That's for certain!

Post by Kal Rubinson July 30, 2014 (10 of 57)
rammiepie said:
8K and true Dolby Atmos implementation in theaters will certainly pry the home theater crowd away from their current 5.1/2K/4K set~ups. That's for certain!

That is clearly the intent of their efforts but are we "the home theater crowd?" Some of us are but many of us are only concerned about the possible impact of these innovations on music playback.

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